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  • The British were using concentration camps in South Africa, I believe. They also carried out genocide in Tasmania. I'm not aware of the full history of the processes used in America against the indigenous people there - but I'm aware that genocide happened there too....
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  • OK, 100 years is a bit of an oversight!

    I just speed-read it, assuming Illithid was refering to the French revolution in terms of peasants expressing their political power - which was in 1789, and followed by Napoleonic rule in 1799.

    So I guess my question back to Illithid would be what political power was he referring to for french peasantry in 1890?...
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    Last edited by Trippy; Yesterday, 04:38 AM.

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  • Technically, 'fascism' was the movement first started with Mussolini after WW1, but a lot of things before it were certainly proto-fascist. The British Empire certainly could be seen in that light, inventing concentration camps for example....
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  • It's a point raised on ENWorld in their reports of ICv2 charts (the organisation that charts RPG sales across the industry), which was also directly confirmed by a representitive of ICv2, when challenged to accomodate the sales figures of various Kickstarter campaigns and drivethrurpg into their charts. The figures they have suggest that these two sources are a fraction of overall RPG sales - expressed as "irrelevant" when considering overall sales. The regular figures for the Top five RPGs in sales are published quarterly. World of Darkness games were last seen on these charts about...
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    Last edited by Trippy; Yesterday, 02:32 AM.

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  • I dunno if it qualifies as fascist, but the British Imperial rule in India was largely defeated by pacifism. Te Whitu-o-Rongomai did a similar type of thing for Moari resistance in New Zealand.

    Christianity, as taken from the written leadership of Jesus, is technically pacifist too (in a prototype way) - and it became the state religion of the Roman Empire (which was also a sort of prototype facism too, come to think about it)....
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    Last edited by Trippy; Yesterday, 02:02 AM.

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  • It's doesn't matter if you disagree, when you are factually wrong. And it was you who used the word wrongly, not I. I just corrected you....
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  • This is maddening. You can't disagree with a fact. You have defined the word 'censorship' incorrectly in your use of it - when you tried to argue that it can on'y be done by governments. You were wrong about that.

    Go and read up about what censorship means: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship

    Stop giving silly arguments....
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  • It's not a question of how I feel, it's a question of accurate use of words. This content has been censored, by definition. You cannot argue with this - it's an unequivocal fact.

    To say anything less - by using an 'editing' euphamism - is not being truthful. You could argue about the reasons, but it is still censorship....
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  • It's not a point of contention here - it's a point of clear definition. 'Censorship' means removing or suppressing content because it is considered unacceptable. It can be benign or malign, and done for all different reasons. Anybody can censor material. I am not arguing over the point that White Wolf presented reasons for censorship, at this stage, I am merely pointing that it was censorship - unequivocaly and precisely - and that your use of the word 'editing' is a euphamism....
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  • Not all editing is censorship, but editing out information because it is considered sensitive or as a reaction to protest is still censorship. In this incident, whether you consider it benign or not, this material has been censored out - by definition....
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  • By definition, censorship can be done by any organisation. Removing content, be it for political or corporate reasons, on the basis that the content is harmful or objectionable, is still censorship....
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  • A variety of factors actually. Some of the women who made the most point were actually quite rich landowners in fact. which meant that lobbying became more of a factor, while others took to more dramatic forms of protest - it was a notable division between the suffragette and suffragist movements. Most countries, however, didn't grant women the vote until after the First World War however, and this is probably because it was seen to be much more important to be inclusive for economic sustainment after that point. It was a similar reason why the vote was extended out to other working class people...
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    Last edited by Trippy; 11-18-2018, 08:06 PM.

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  • Do you think impoverished people in 1800s UK had much lobbying power? Or money, for that matter?

    That's what were were talking about....
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  • Yes I do. And the fact is that vampires aren't real, and this is a work of fiction. When used in the context of real world situations like this, they are being used metaphorically by definition. This is the crux of the issue. If you think they are making a literal statement of fact, then it can be seen as offensive. But it wasn't a literal statement. It was a fictional representation expressed by the words of a fictional character.

    We will see how Paradox continue to manage it's IP as time passes, but I'm a lot less hopeful about the future prospects of this game after these events...
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    Last edited by Trippy; 11-18-2018, 05:54 PM.

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  • Y'see I don't think it was nonchalance at all. It was an attempt to bring in a real world situation because the writers cared about the situation enough to want to write about it. I think the use of vampires were allegorical, and used as a metaphor to illustrate how monstrous the regime was. It wasn't written to make light of the situation there, it was just using the framework of a fictional game to illustrate what was going on and trying to bring it to the audience's attention. I think the reaction to this material was overblown and it's a shame that people felt it needed to be censored....
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    Last edited by Trippy; 11-18-2018, 05:30 PM.

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  • I think it's a pretty big factor when considering political discorse. If you don't have a vote, you don't really have a voice in a representitive democracy....
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  • Most people in the UK during the 1800s didn't vote. As such, UK politics wasn't polarised at all - it just represented a tiny minority of wealthy land-owners for the most part. The situation today in the UK is more polarised not just because vastly more people have the right to vote, but they also have means to promote their views online. Unfortunately, the ones that seem to get most attention are not necessarily the most considered in their views, but merely the ones that are most outspoken. The current situation in the UK polls, and the events thereof (ie Brexit) show just how divided politics...
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  • There has never been any era where politics is about nice safe things. The difference with this era is just that people are more polarised and are more inclined to take extreme views (especially on the internet). It's not that the issues themselves were any less serious in other times. While White Wolf was writing in the 1990s there were mass shootings in Waco, Columbine, Isreal, Tasmania, Northern Ireland, China, Egypt, Mexico, and lots of other places and genocide being perpetrated in places like Serbia and Rwanda for example. There was a lot of economic recession in the late 80s, early 1990s...
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    Last edited by Trippy; 11-17-2018, 09:40 PM.

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  • I think the stance by rpgpub is not that people can't discuss politics, but rather than the site isn't the place for it, while there are plenty of other sites that you can discuss politics if you want.

    Professionally, both when I was in business and now as a teacher, the rule of thumb is basically 'no politics or religion' when going about your professional discussions with customers or students respectively. It's just not the place for it.

    Obviously, politics can infuse everything - from nursary rhymes upwards - but there is still a difference between a general set...
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  • Well I refute that, because they were shutting down any speculation about M5, regardless of tone or content. Precisely the same sort of threads we have discussing M5 on this site, were being banned on that site, out of hand and without warning. Whatever is claimed, there wasn't any WW bashing or edition warring being mentioned - it was just a case of administration being a bit precious about the current edition which they are invested in, and shutting down any speculation about M5....
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    Last edited by Trippy; 11-17-2018, 06:43 PM.

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Trippy
Trippy
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