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[Mister_Dunpeal]

In my experience whenever you talk about the 'logic' of a setting between participants in a fandom, you're guaranteed to get very different answers depending on various factors like suspension of disbelief and what is 'logically' consistent. Honestly there are things about WoD that still made me wince in Revised (or even V20) - like some of the ideas about how firearms work and the science behind them (some kinda work, but some are based on alot of fairly common misconceptions from back in the day. I used to buy them too until I got some actual learning on the topic.) It's not something most people...

[Mister_Dunpeal]

'Explosions' can be different kinds. There's a difference between detonating explosives (stuff like TNT) and other kinds (deflagration, like gunpowder. Usually you need to have the pressure build up in a confined area for it to be properly explosive. The same can happen with hot water heaters.) But the explosion itself need not be the primary source of fire injury (although they CAN cause flash burns, so there is a kinda thermal component close up at least even if blast is the primary damage mechanism) - but you can also get secondary fires starting in other ways from an explosion.

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[Mister_Dunpeal]

And that wouldn't apply to questions about cosmology to? I'm not sure Vampire actually ever dealt with anything offplanet like Mage has (And I think Werewolf has, too.)...

[Mister_Dunpeal]

Kinda. Caine returned and the Antediluvians create their Empire of Blood:






Caine returns, First City (returns or is discovered or whatever) and a big judgement thing goes on. Caine and Lilith fight, then all hell LITERALLY breaks loose.

Then we get to the 'Empire of Blood' and the thousand year reign and the last daughter. This passage is more interesting to me because the Father of Darkness is not necessarily Caine (Caine himself may not be the Dark Father in fact. A later passage suggests it's the 'bastard of Caine':

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[Mister_Dunpeal]

`an unexpected fire could always happen due to some accident or mistake when doing demolitions. Nothing says it was intentional. Or maybe when fighting a fire a few other buildings 'accidentally' caught fire.

Situations where you might have official organizations burning stuff would be like a controlled burning of forests. A few immobilizd vampires stuck in the middle of a controlled burning might not even be noticed.

[Mister_Dunpeal]

That's certainly possible too. Timeline and chronology was never clear cut, and there are things (see book of Nod) which could suggest that Gehenna might last centuries (see 'Last Daughter' - something that the final book overlooked.) One of the more obvious ways to connect them is that Gehenna is still an ongoing thing and perhaps the events from the final oWoD happen.. they just occur over a less compressed timeframe than that book required because it was *The End*.

If you figure things operate over longer time scales, you could also surmise that aspects of it might change over...

[Mister_Dunpeal]

I could see the Technocracy being a covert ally of the SI the same way I could see the Celestial Chorus (and possibly the Order of Hermes at least where the Tremere are involved) and giving it some indirect aid, but I don't think I ever considered them the same thing. I always saw the SI as a fusion of various government agencies aware of vampires (the project Twilight stuff), the imbued, and the Society (who are an extension of the original inquisition, who as per Dark Ages stuff were a sort of 'imbued'...)

But you can see lots of supernatural factions 'helping' the SI in various...

[Mister_Dunpeal]

Since I got back into the material I've gotten used to thinking that the 'END' we got with oWoD isn't really THE end, but rather *A* End. Which isn't that far fetched since alot of the earlier VtM narrative (to say nothing of other spinoff materials like KotE) put an emphasis on things being cyclical. Gehenna (however you decide to envision it from that book) was simply a transition to the stuff of V20 and V5 (and you can take multiple routes to connect the two, I think.) Whichever route is taken you can envision that it was suitably apocalyptic that many of the dumber, more complacent, less adaptable...

[Mister_Dunpeal]

I liked Mummy too, but it feels like they waited too late in the oWoD cycle to really develop it (Demon had the same issue I think) and for most of the time it was really an afterthought (I wish they'd retained more of the 2nd edition elements too which had crossovers with things like the Arcanum) I was less worried about KotE, but I'd partly wished they'd done more to connect the Kuei-Jin to the Hunters, given that the latter are the successors to the former. Some context relative to their relationship with the Shih might have been interesting (because there was some overlap but also still distinct...

[Mister_Dunpeal]

There needn't be only a single source of power (although if you argue there IS a single source of energy, it can have different points of origin and forms.) Some of it could be innate (Vampire blood/curse) and some of it could be external (the Baali's masters.)...

[Mister_Dunpeal]

Maybe? I don't think it would be completely impossible for Astronauts in spacesuits to have protection from sunlight so it seems something along those lines might work for Vampires, and that's assuming relatively modern tech levels (or even 80s-90s level tech!) You might have to avoid looking directly AT the sun, but it could work. Or just staying in the 'shadow' of the ship (remember its line of sight, so only part of the ship will be exposed to direct sunlight) Even in a worse case I'm pretty sure some vampire with high strength or potence could rig up some sort of mobile barrier to move...

[Mister_Dunpeal]

You have to be in line of sight for direct emissions from the star (or rather the sun more likely) for the curse to kick in. If line of sight is blocked, then you can't be burnt by the sunlight (as with the comic someone refrenced, reflected light doesn't quite seem to qualify.)

Of course if you get into semantics with curses (the curse applying to 'walking the earth' or more specifically Caine walking the earth' gives its own loopholes... you could argue that if one escapes Earth or gets Caine to escape earth it might be broken. Then again the 'literal' translation could mean...

[Mister_Dunpeal]

If you take a broad perspctive of KotE and Hunter (which have strong connections with each other and Exalted as well as some with DtF) you can see elements that would connect together. In KotE and Hunter we're told some creator entity abandons the world (and forces his minions to do so) because the champions were corrupted. KotE IIRC links it to the Yama Kings and we know Fyodor talks about the 'Dark Ones' locked away and who corrupted the 'shining ones'. It doesn't take much to link the Fallen to the Yama Kings or 'Dark Ones' (hell the Fallen WERE locked away until recently and they appeared...

[Mister_Dunpeal]

Grumpy RPG Review's reference to the Dark Tower was apt, I think, since some oWoD mythos (including the supposed ties to Exalted) took more of a 'cyclical' view of things. Heck even in earlier editions of Vampire we were told that the Antes rising up was cyclical (it was what, every 2300 years or so I think? I can't recall and am too lazy to check ATM). I've always felt there was ample justifications to be able to treat it as 'final' or 'not final' as you wanted. And what you want to happen is also up to you (do you want civilization to continue as it does, or do you want to reduce things to Fallout...

[Mister_Dunpeal]

I'd say the Nosferatu are focused on survival more than anything. And they're smart enough not to go actively seeking/antagonizing the Antediluvians. Fight if they have to, but fight smart and only fight if you have to (and on your terms.) A big part of that is information, which is why they've gotten so good at acquiring and sharing it....

[Mister_Dunpeal]

Out of Universe: OWoD was started in a pre-internet time by predominantly 80s-90s era westerners, so having concepts they are more familiar with and fall in their comfort zone is not exactly shocking. The same way that despite the fact the Imperium of Mankind (from Warhammer 40K) has a religion that supposedly embraces all kinds of faiths (including non Judeo-Christian belief systems) the dominant imagery and such are... Judeo-Christian imagery.

Edit: Also remember that Demon came at the tail end of the oWoD run and like certain other systems did not have the longevity that Vampire,...

[Mister_Dunpeal]

Games that limit you also offer opportunities to be more creative in how you apply using magic since you have fewer ways to 'brute force' your way through things. Sort of Mage: The Macguyvering I think. There's always an appeal to that kind of puzzle solving the same way trying to figure out creative ways to get the best milage out of level one disciplines/gifts/etc can be. It's the same sort of challenge that make different approaches to most systems do (including Dark Age Mage. Part of why I mentioned that is BECAUSE it is more limiting in many ways, but also reflects a different way...

[Mister_Dunpeal]

It would depend on how old the hostile vampire is and what their background might be. I'd be hesitant to go up against even newbie Brujah in hand to hand, but a thin blood or low level Caitiff might be another matter and depending on how much min/max optimizing for that particular situation I'd be allowed to do (which is allowable within the first post I think but also represents a rather... isolated example?)

The more powerful it is the more inclined I am to go either for 'avoid entirely' or at least 'engage indirectly/at range'....

[Mister_Dunpeal]

I think that while there are some broad ideas as far as mechanics go (1 is a fairly low level avatar that doesn't exert strong influence, whilst a level 5 avatar would be VERY hard to ignore) it's one of those things they expect you to role play. Which means it probably depends on the Storyteller and player and what they work out between themselves....

[Mister_Dunpeal]

I tend to view attributes as 'innate ability' whereas talents/abilities are more specialized training/knowledge. Exceptional attributes may give you some innate level of 'ability' or compensate for lack of knowledge/skill but knowledge/skill taches you how to use what you have effectively.

That makes which is 'better' entirely situational, although depending on how one wanted to play it you could also say that having both high would be ideal (talent + knowledge)...