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  • Simple physical disciplines are intuitive. They add to a stat and have a bonus feature, leveling things up only increases the few benefits offered. Potence is great for fighting, for carrying things, for climbing, for jumping, for swiming, for showing off. We understand that it "increases strength" and we can easily use that for a variety of situations. Just being stronger carries a lot of opportunities, but it need only be explained with "adds to strength stat"

    But then there's v5. v5 moves away from this beautiful, excellent simplicity. There's some powers that...
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    Last edited by MyWifeIsScary; Yesterday, 05:36 PM.

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  • V5 raised the level of Feral whispers no? It's a level 2 power. The level 1's really, really suck. The level 3 power that makes you more acceptable to animals is also something that, in vtm, was just bolted on to having the discipline at all. So the first three levels are much weaker.




    Physical disciplines worked better when they were simple powers that got better linearly. It just makes life easier not having to memorize (and chose from) so many powers; Brujah were elegantly simple. It also makes more thematic sense; Getting faster,tougher or stronger gradually...
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  • Ha.

    V5 powers are a lot weaker than VTM's powers. In VTM, basically everything common disciplines wise but presence and celerity were free to use, no blood requirement, no willpower necessary.

    Animalism
    VTM: So, feral whispers is like, a fucking king-discipline
    V5: I need a discipline to have an animal friend? I can't remember this well, but is that neccessary? In VTM I could just create a ghoul and/or use feral whispers. Shit I could Feral whisper all the dogs in the neighbourhood to be my defenders and use animalism 2 to call my army. Now, I need a whole...
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  • [redacted]
    Really though, V5 is about playing a loser. Something about you is wrong and you have to hide it, everyone else is better than you by virtue of not being you. Humans aren't weak fools and they won't fall for your charade. This only works if you nerf the fuck outa being a vampire and give super drugs to the heroic police/mob. You can't feel persecuted if humans were realistic and your own side was competent. God is punishing vampires, for a change.


    Edit: I see now the mistake, but still, these mortals have some very out-there stats. A common criminal has a streetwise...
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    Last edited by MyWifeIsScary; 02-17-2020, 04:38 PM.

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  • Given how easy it is to modify by removing damage/soak rolls and the declare actions phase, I wouldn't say the core system is so poor, and that V5 had a good cure for it by scrapping it and making it light and disconnected. It's like a road had a pothole and the solution was to rip it all out and build a canal....
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  • Combat moves are pretty intuitive. You don't need every move to have rules, just a framework to allow all kinds of moves, which can be done in a page or two. Apart from v5, the WoD rules have offered a fair framework....
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  • As I haven't read these bokks you speak of, I assumed Auspex was useful because Tzmisce are messing with flesh, and flesh has many, many fine details you'd need auspex to work with. There's no finer companion. Animalism, meanwhile, I imagine works on people who've had a lobotomy....
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  • But you see... As someone who likes gritty, realistic combat, and who has some small appreciation for martial arts, it's really, really nice to fight by putting a person in a grapple, use leverage to make your strikes better, turning them and moving them to the ground, and then hammering their face in... It's satisfying to imagine your move, your next move, your opponents move, your response, your opponents next move... Especially in WoD where fangs, claws, alternative forms, pack tactics...

    Karate kids, medieval enthusiasts and folk who like pro-wrestling seem to have a decent...
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  • Just so you know, he blocks you if you don't agree with him. That's the kind of behaviour that makes you want to disagree with him, sure, and indeed everytime he pulls this nonsense it discredits his side and their argument further, but you still can't have the discussion, because he's blocked you.

    Once they've stopped using reason, just accept that they've lost....
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    Last edited by MyWifeIsScary; 02-16-2020, 04:10 PM.

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  • If there's no board then what does his status matter?
    I would just suggest you don't make your dispute public though. Would reflect badly on the clan....
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  • Lore of the Clans does well too.
    If you can sway members of the Board, you should be fine....
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  • Nah, V5 dominate is way weaker. Look at what they did to mesmorize. Went from insidious and versatile to blunt cartoon hypnosis. The best power for the masquerade became a liability....
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  • I once got to horrify a player with v20's shitty mechanics. They were weak and struggling to dash in the head of a secretary who'd witnessed a clear masquerade breach on the floor. Several times was the head shoved against the floor, several times this didn't result in mechanical damage. It was just savagery.

    On the otherhand, I once had an epic battle with a housecat. Not a ghoul. a regular housecat.
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  • I, for one, love every VTM clan.The Giovanni are the worst, and I'd still give them a 6/10. (the Biggest flaw being they don't really mesh with others)

    If ya don't love a clan, it's cause you don't get them. (and subsequently, you shouldn't be rewriting them to work for you; House Carna is a Terrible idea) Embrace the mindset.For Tzmisce, embrace Vicissitude. The more you understand, the more it works....
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  • While we're here, V5 is objectively bad, because it's objectively unfaithful to prior editions. Objectively it's more difficult to make a character with the standard rule book, objectively the flattening of the power dynamic; making elders and mortals closer in power, is something VTM was very much not about. Objectively, the new metaplot has a lot of holes in it, and objectively the suplementary books have contradicted elements of the core book. Also, objectively, making fun of lizard-people conspiracy theory in a book about vampires infiltrating society...

    Yeah, I...
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  • remove damage/soak rolls and just take half. optionally remove declare-actions phase. result; a fast and better combat system than v5.

    I really, really like how down and gritty you can get with VTM. being able to describe your move and having mechanics relate rather than just 'i attack' is great. v5 is abstract and loses this
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  • Now, McDonalds has done wonders for it's image, so it's not seen as so bad anymore, but I definitely prefer international brands to local chains for that sense of global evil. I mean, me and a lot of people on this forum have never been to an applebees, some of us haven't even heard of em.

    That said, a lot of Pentex stuff could really only exist in a few places as smaller companies. Like gay conversion facilities. That stuff wouldn't fly in a lot of the world. But globalised evil is fun for everyone....
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  • Don't wanna get one-true-wayist on y'all but V20 works best with simple streamlining, because combat's between two and four times slower than it needs to be, and maybe a few balance changes to some rare disciplines. A way to earn humanity back without XP expenditure is also neccessary, and the exponential experience rates need to be fixed because they encourage way too many 1's and 4's at character creation. There's nothing else (worth noting) that really needs to be touched, and none of those changes really transform the themes of the game.

    V5 however; The way you handle a lot of...
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  • O'tolleys
    Not just a knockoff of a certain fast food place to avoid copy rights, but also a way to avoid libel, because y'know, they're putting mystery meat, chemical weapons and evil spirits into their burgers.

    Vampires, werewolves, mages, changelings, spirits... All of these would alter human history for the worse. I don't want to change historical facts, but embellishing the nasty is kinda what I think you're supposed to do. Just taking the normal world and slapping supernaturals down, assuming they aren't creating changes...

    Like, yeah, our world is pretty...
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  • I was just thinking the exaggerated the worst qualities as normal.
    Star Trek Is pretentious, Star Wars is extra racist, Tolkien is even more aggressively conservative (and twice as influential) and the Beatles were oh-so much more toxic to eachother.


    Even stuff that was great and popular is twisted. All the disney films were a lot better at peddling their conservative values, until they got modern and made liberal ideas look like a joke. The Terminator created a lot of ludites and impersonators. All christian films are Wyrm funded cult-encouragement, The marvel films...
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MyWifeIsScary
MyWifeIsScary
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