User Profile

[jrichview]

I'd like to thank everyone that responded to this. You all helped me gel my understanding of it.

I ended up going back through GFA and Revised Core and creating a document that reorganizes the rules spread out all over the books. Hopefully in future any of my players that want to know how I handle ghoul creation (that is, creation by vampire PCs as an NPC, not creation of ghouls as PCs) can just read my synopsis. In some cases where I don't anticipate needing to know something for day-to-day gaming purposes (okay, it's Vampire so night-to-night!), I just referenced the source book...

[jrichview]

I'm sticking with Revised rules for this because I don't have V5 sourcebooks. Of course, Revised doesn't have its own version of "Ghouls: Fatal Attraction" which came out with second edition, about a year before Revised Core was released. But the only real snag I have noticed so far is that Revised gives ghouls -2 on difficulty to resist frenzy and GFA gives them -3....

[jrichview]

Yes. I think I skimmed over that entire section of the book too quickly because it appeared to be focused on derangements.

That section and the fact that it is subtitled "(Optional Rules)" leaves you with the impression that they were thinking of ONE blood point as the default or simple case. Also they seemed to be assuming that's what the reader was thinking since they never explicitly said it. The reason I say that is the text "but [the optional rules] add greater complexity and bookkeeping." So in the optional section they got into a more complicated system...

[jrichview]

By the way, I was more interested in rule mechanics, but from an RP perspective this is a great response! It so happens that when I designed the NPC I specifically noted that if he believes he is dealing with ACTUAL REAL vampires, he will be so shocked and terrified that he will drop the tough guy routine and say anything to get them to spare him and let him go. If he gets away he will flee the Southeastern U.S. completely and never return....

[jrichview]

Well, you're illustrating nicely one of the key points of confusion: Blood Pool vs Blood Points. What makes it even more complicated is that blood points in a blood pool may represent either human blood or vitae. I think they should have made some sort of separate way to keep track of those.

The way I interpreted the text, The ghoul starts with one (or is it two? Any rule quotes here or is it a house rule?) Vitae point in their blood pool. They have a blood pool of 10, but only the vitae blood points count for purposes of ghoul abilities. The rest is just human blood, So, example...

[jrichview]

For whatever it's worth, the V20 rules for Ghoul character creation [from Ghouls and Revenants supplement] have more specifics than the revised rules. Of course, that's meant for player characters, but I can probably use the same rules for NPC Ghouls:...

[jrichview]

Where are you getting the "two" from?...

[jrichview]

Well he hasn't been blood-bound yet. Only had one taste. So I would say he is "ghouled" (for lack of a better term) but not blood bound. I think you and I are probably saying the same thing but with different terminology. You don't consider him a ghoul if he has no vitae left, but based on "This last blood point is lost only after a full month." it seems to indicate they are still technically ghouls, just with empty tanks. However, it is never clearly stated that I can find....

[jrichview]

That's what I am getting from the text, yes. But what exactly are the game-related effects of "remain a ghoul" when you have no vitae in you? Just the ongoing fascination with the domitor?

As I mentioned, I ruled that while he was beaten and barely conscious he went ahead and consumed the blood he was given. Seems to me that a human fed blood from someone's arm might very well resist, spit it out, whatever. But a human thrashed to within an inch of his life, barely sustaining consciousness for brief moments, probably senses liquid in their mouth and licks/swallows. After...

[jrichview]

In Ghouls: Fatal Addiction CH1 under "Hard-and-Fast Rules", they first mention the blood pool in "Aging and Elder Ghouls" subsection:

For each century of life, an elder revenant gains one extra point in his Blood Pool, while an elder ghoul can comfortably drink one extra Blood Point (i.e., a 150-year-old ghoul can hold three Blood Points in the stomach, a 210-year-old ghoul can hold four, etc.)."

They don't say what sized blood pool the ghoul should have started with.

Then in the subsection "Blood" they mention how they can burn vitae, but...

[jrichview]

Ok so a one point blood pool*, it gets spent immediately because he used it to heal himself, and that means he is OUT of vitae. What are the consequences of that? He needs more blood much sooner, not in a month? He stops being affected by the "infatuation" 30 days later if he gets no more blood?

You see where I am going with this. The rules really aren't clear at all.

* Technically a vampire need not spend an entire blood point to make someone a ghoul. Just a few drops. But for sake of game system we'll say that gives him a one point blood pool....

[jrichview]

I love this thread! Puzzled why I didn't get notified of all these replies. I thought I subscribed to the post. Will investigate.

I know it digressed a bit, but lacking other experienced VTM players to kibbitz with, this thread is the kind of thing I needed.

The player I mentioned just created a ghoul in my game last night, impulsively. I actually just posted questions about that on another thread. I knew he had been interested in ghouling, and actually I'm fine with it. The prince of my city is a little more progressive than average (for reasons I won't delve into),...

[jrichview]

Much as we all love VTM we've all run into the problem that the "rule books" aren't very rule-ey. They're more like graphic novels with a little bit of rules scattered throughout.

Anyway, to my question. And I'll preface this by saying I have only played VTM a little bit, though I have GM'd other RPGs for many, many years. Still, I would love some advice from experienced VTM players.

Last night in my game, the coterie had captured a hunter's hireling. They had beat him into submission (mostly with a really lucky shot) and I ruled that in his Incapacitated...