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  • Please point out where I said anything about you changing Werewolf? You swap back and forth between Garou not having numbers and Lupines. You also for some inexplicable reason seem to think Werewolves NEED to be weaker than vampires.

    I can give you a purpose for why werewolves need to be stronger than Vampires. Can you give me one for why werewolves need to be weaker/equal to vampires in direct combat? That's not "26 years of people saying stuff I don't like on the internet" because that's your apparently argument.

    Here's my short and quick of it. If you make...
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  • Fair enough.






    Ask in the general setup who's the most powerful starting PC. I'm doubting you won't see plenty of people say Mage, Mummy or Demon. I don't see why different gamelines need to have some sort of "balance" across them. You are no more expected to play a werewolf in a vampire game than a Dragon in your average D&D party. That Council of WYrms existed doesn't mean the expectations changed.



    Werewolves being stronger than Kindred is a setting conceit, its an arbitrary choice like sunlight, generation,...
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  • I can wax poetically about how powerful the sun is too. WIll that make you drop it doing damage to kindred? How about the power of the Beast? Are you going to drop humanity/paths? How about Elders being blood gods? Going to drop Generation?

    IF you think Lupines is something that can be casually solved by violence means pcs are going to casually solve them.

    I can wax poetically about Vampires scaring the shit out of Garou too, about turning everyone against them. About showing the complete impotency of Violence in the face of the power of sublety The narrative purpose...
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  • Lian
    replied to Gen Con Announcements
    So release in 2020?
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  • Silver smithing and Crafting SIlver weapons are probably two different skills. This isn't to say its not a good idea but your average person working with silver really isn't going to be good at making weapons since they have no idea how to make weapons AND silver's pretty not good for this.

    This doesn't mean if your Vampire is having a serious Lupine issue and moving isn't an option then yeah building up the skills at this is going to be a priority. But you're probably going to want to start with people who do make stuff that's meant to be used as a weapon than people who are silver...
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  • Right off the bat Kindred have crazy powers! They can get a 10 gnosis/quint/Glamor from killing ONE PERSON. That's crazy? can you imagine the sort of shit I a Garou could do if they could hold... 14 gnosis and spam 3 a round? CRAZY. And Kindred can just spend one of those points and make an awakened Kinfolk level retainer.. That's fucking nuts! a Single Kindred could eat one homeless person and make a gang full of ghouls. Or they could take it from rats.. rats in a city. That's insane.

    Plenty of banes get good shit from kindred. But really every action a Garou spends attacking Kindred...
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  • Then you don't understand the intention. They need to be scarrier to engage in than a sabbat Seige. That is the intent. That every bit of crazy shit the sabbat throws at you is better than cutting through Lupine territory. Bloodlines has it perfect. That doesn't have an ounce of W:TA lore thrown in, they are just a scary thing you can't really engage in combat....
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  • It seems like both making him Sabbat and infernal sort of overplays the trap. I'd suggest making him just an infernal Catiff driven by the realities of the Camarilla towards the infernal to survive. Maybe even he thinks he's a "good guy" by showing neonates are fucked by the system like him how to "get ahead" oh sure he has to kill some wicked acts.. but have you seen the shit the Tremere do? Or that Ventrue elder? Let him be the baron or whatever the local "big man" for the anarchs are.

    You get tragedy, pathos and an all sorts of hard questions on...
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  • Well there's a big difference between someone who's a card carrying member of Path of Evil Revelations and someone who's lost a couple of pieces of their soul to a Demon.. and might desperately want them back. If you want his cheaty powers to lead to a plot dealing with the Infernal I suggest you make them explicitly infernal. He made a deal with a demon to teleport, this would definatley give him something Nightcrawlery and it might have a side effect of OCCASIONALLY releasing a minor demon......
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  • The type of things that would go after this chantry are completely unrelated to the ones that are actually a danger to the real chantry. Yes you have a distraction for werewolves... but for the most part werewolves don't siege Chantries. The Sabbat does. That you've build this elaborate magical trap that only attracts things that would normally leave you alone is kind of the issue. Anything that would be actually looking for the Chantry would be looking to catch vampires when they are feeding. Follow apprentice back to Chantry, attack chantry.

    All you've done is basically said "Clan...
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  • What purpose is served by him being Catiff? If you want him to teleport make it a infernal investment. The only advantage to it being a "Created discpline" is that PCs could learn it. Do you want the Pc teleporting?
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  • Ghouled/Embraced Hedge mages aren't as common a thing as this board seems to assume. Its extremely rare that a modern Tremere was a working sorcerer before hand. Many Tremere



    This is an especially bad idea. Its like deciding you want the Malkavians and Brujah in your chantry but they can run around during the day and are much harder to kill!



    The Focus for Vampires will always first and foremost be vampires. Spending time denying Garou caerns, or mages resources is time they could work on building theirown resources since for the most part...
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  • Good thing they aren't that. I Mean that's what they are in Apocalypse but a straight Masquerade is. They are a Deathtrap. They are part of the conceit that you don't have one Vampire Emperor of the world but rather the many broken up princedoms. SO yes. They have to be scary death machines. That is their narrative purpose, they are no more meant to be a random encounter for your vampire than the Sun or a Tornado, something you survive with cunning and skill(see Bloodlines)...
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    Last edited by Lian; 08-15-2017, 06:34 PM.

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  • In order to make someone who paints toreador you need surprise and speed. So I'm going to suggest an Assamite Warrior. THey drop out of obfuscate get a surprise off paint the Toreador whatever color you want then Escape. Of course Toreador have Auspex to make this harder so I suggest judicious use of flash grenades.
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  • And in Twilight Vampires can walk out during the sun. Lupines exist as an exitential problem as part of the setup of Masquerade. Ignoring anything about Apocalypse they exist to funnel kindred into cities and not go "I'm going to go make myself god king of small town USA" they are "Hot Lava" they are an enviromental condition like sunlight. In appocalypse fighting a Vampire should be hard because its an out of context servant fo the wyrm. In Masquerade Lupines are Deathtraps, they are "you don't go to this location" not something you engage in.

    That being...
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  • No they don't. Humanity is no more a residue than Path of Paradox. Its an instinctive construct to combat the beast since the Kindred spent most of their life being human. It is intrinsically artificial thus why its so important as part of the Masquerade....
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  • Kindred gain no benefits from building on a node/chantry/dragonsnest. While they technically deny their opponents a resource its something by its nature that makes said enemies have an easier time assulting.

    IF an ST made me head Tremere of a Chantry like that... I'd move. I'd make a deal with the most reasonable Tribe/Tradition/convention. Sell the property and move. You will only waste resources that matter on a conflict that doesn't. EVERY ritual you have to cast dealing with Lupines is another pint of blood you need to hunt down. Every second spent in the war is time you could...
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    Last edited by Lian; 08-15-2017, 08:01 AM.

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  • Lian
    replied to Could this work in V:TM?
    They snatch up all sorts of people. I was just pointing out the potential plot point of ritual signficance that could be applied here. I mean your would be Tremere Sire could just be "I like the cut if his jib" as might many clans. He's a frighteningly ambitious go getter and isn't one of those crazy religious types....
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  • Toreador aren't a clan of artists they are the clan addicted to Beauty, while this means they CAN be artists it doesn't mean they need to have a specialized art, they can in fact entirely BE consumers of art....
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  • Until they mess up. The problem with being auktaris is you have all the disadvantages of being a part of kindred society without the advantages. You have to do all yourown clean up, you can't trade a boon to some guy who runs the cops. Any Frenzy could ruin everything.




    That's not a normal life at all?



    However completely dropping out of mage society is an option. The hermit who doesn't engage with much of anyone else is pretty much a standard for mages....
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Lian
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