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  • So, if I'm understanding you right, you're saying Life can affect the undead so long as there's functional biology? So it could boost a Vampire using blush of life, or a Sin-Eater, because both have functioning biology even though they're not really "alive"?...
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  • What other than living beings does Life work on? The only not-really-alive things that Life can affect are viruses.

    Are you saying spells like Heighten Senses should work on Sin-Eaters? What about Vampires?...
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  • Andrew Kaninchen
    Re: Vampires and Sin-Eaters: Death all the way. as Satchel mentioned, the Bound are metaphysically dead, and that means they're affected by the Death Arcanum and not the Life Arcanum. Most of a Sin-Eater's power set is also Death aligned; conversely, most of the non-physical Disciplines for a Vampire are Mind.

    totalgit
    Re: Werewolves: Life to affect their physical forms (which are alive); Spirit would interact with Werewolves in a way similar to the way Prime interacts with Mages: it can reveal their Primal Urge, how much Essence they have, what Gifts...
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  • This is a pretty compelling argument.

    On the other hand, I don't think it breaks anything to allow non-Sympathetic Casting on things with Connected Sympathy since there's only three.

    I'll probably just see if it ever comes up in my game before I even make a ruling....
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  • (never mind, not worth it)
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    Last edited by proindrakenzol; 01-10-2021, 04:04 AM.

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  • Is Soul Window not rules text? The sentence is pretty clear that the reason the Sympathetic Range Attainment isn't required is due to the Connected Sympathy property.

    I'll also point out that there just aren't that many ways to have Connected Sympathy: Mage and their familiar, Mage and their soul stone(s), and Legacy Pedagogue and Daimonomikon are the only "naturally" occurring examples. The only other way is via Space 5's Create Sympathy....
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  • From the Soul Window spell:

    "Since the mage has a Connected link to her own
    soul stone, this spell doesn’t require sympathetic range to cast."

    Connected Sympathy allows you to cast on the thing with which you have Connected Sympathy without the Sympathetic Range Attainment. Viewing a thing remotely and in real time allows you to cast Remotely by spending two Reach total (one for Sensory Range, and an additional for Remote) without having the Sympathetic Range Attainment.

    A Familiar has both Connected Sympathy and the ability to be sensed through,...
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  • I just looked at the Sympathy table in the 2e core book.

    Only Soul Stones and familiars are listed as examples of Connected sympathy, bodily samples are Strong sympathy. Based on that, I'd say a Daimonomikon authored by a Legacy Pedagogue would offer the same benefits re: remote spellcasting as a Soul Stone or familiar.



    From the spell Scrying: "Casting spells on subjects the mage can see through the window counts as viewing them remotely."

    I see no reason that would change. Ergo, casting on someone through a Scrying Window would require...
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    Last edited by proindrakenzol; 01-07-2021, 12:47 PM.

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  • I think it's limited to using a Familiar or Soul Stone rather than being a broad application of Connected Sympathy....
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  • Anything that creates a Lasting effect directly should require Mana. Personally, I think it should be similar to the spell in Dark Eras 2 that allows Mages to participate in Changeling Oaths, if the Duration of the spell ends before the Oath is fulfilled you've failed to uphold your end of the bargain; +2 Reach and a Mana: Lasting....
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  • Many of the splats already do have Fighting Style (and just Style) merits:

    Vampires have Kindred Dueling and Riding the Wave; Changelings have Elemental Warrior and Hedge Duelist, they also have Enchanting Performance as a non-combat Style; Sin-eaters have Retribution (not exactly a Fighting Style, but counts, I think); Prometheans have Brute Force; Werewolves have Relentless Assault and Tactical Shifting, plus a handful of non-style Werewolf combat merits; Beasts also get Relentless Assault (interestingly, the Beast version can apply to Weaponry, but Werewolf is Brawl only).
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  • Thaumaturgists? only in the fan update Tessie mentioned.

    However, a lot of *Second Sight*'s themes are covered in *Hurt Locker*'s Chapter Three, including several lesser supernatural templates such as Psychic Vampires and Atariya....
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  • proindrakenzol
    replied to How to: Spider Climb
    It's clear my erstwhile interlocutor isn't interested in actually having a discussion or argument. You can call it strawmaning or gaslighting, it doesn't really matter at this point. galivet doesn't want an honest debate and there's no reason to further engage, it's not like we're ever going to play in a game together and he can make whatever house rules he wants....
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  • proindrakenzol
    replied to How to: Spider Climb
    "Shielding spells, sometimes called Warding spells, offer
    protection against phenomena under the Arcanum’s
    purview. A Shielding spell might protect against a ghost’s
    Numina (Death), make the mage immune to fire (Forces)
    or disease (Life), or allow her to survive in a caustic atmosphere
    (Matter). Mages protect themselves from general
    harm through the power of their Arcana with the Mage
    Armor Attainment rather than Shielding spells."

    That's what I think shielding means. And yes, you can protect yourself, or someone else, against...
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    Last edited by proindrakenzol; 12-26-2020, 11:02 PM.

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  • proindrakenzol
    replied to How to: Spider Climb
    This already happens with the spells in the core book: Telekinesis can let something fly, it just requires more work than Flight.



    It requires a lot more than just fluff, it requires more work. Yes, clever application of Shielding can let you create a nuclear explosion, but you still need to set up the mundane conditions, it's not something you can just do on the fly in the middle of combat.



    You can use Matter 2's Shaping to move all the oxygen away from a person and keep it that way until they asphyxiate, and I don't think even you would argue...
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  • proindrakenzol
    replied to How to: Spider Climb
    I quoted the section about mundane phenomena, the supernatural section is irrelevant because we're discussing mundane phenomena. Further, there are sidebars (such as the one for Ban) that support the idea of secondary consequences being intended. Further, the Shielding spells presented do protect against more than your interpretation of direct harm; including protecting from beneficial effects, and protecting Mysteries from being influenced by the person shielded.

    There's also the sidebar KaiserAfni quoted.

    Your and git's arguments, however, are variations of "I...
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  • proindrakenzol
    replied to How to: Spider Climb
    And I think you're reading restrictions into the rules that you want to be there, but aren't.



    Do you have a page reference for this? Because "maintains the status quo" does not appear anywhere I can see.



    Ban isn't even a Shielding spell, but you're making distinctions that I don't think really exist: the point is that what a spell does doesn't preclude secondary effects from occurring, the opposite is true....
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  • proindrakenzol
    replied to How to: Spider Climb
    I do understand. You don't seem to understand I believe you are wrong.



    I have made that argument, because it's a valid one; I've also pointed out why it's not terribly useful (or out of line with other 2-dot spells from other Arcana). You have every right to call it stupid, insofar as you have the right to call anything stupid, but I have the right to say your calling it stupid is, itself, stupid....
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  • proindrakenzol
    replied to How to: Spider Climb
    You clearly don't understand the practice of Shielding, or the work arounds being discussed.

    First, look at the spell Light Under a Bushel, a Prime Shielding spell in Signs of Sorcery that prevents interference/contamination, rather than protecting against an explicitly harmful thing.

    Also, under the Protection section of the core book:

    "These spells usually provide blanket immunity to natural or
    mundane phenomena"

    Further, the spells don't grant the ability to fly (I didn't bring up flying in the first place, you did) or wall...
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    Last edited by proindrakenzol; 12-26-2020, 05:58 PM.

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  • proindrakenzol
    replied to How to: Spider Climb
    And I do have a degree in physics, so I am able to adjudicate things like that.

    I don't mind if other STs want to arbitrarily restrict when reality ensues, I just won't play with them; I do mind other users making broad pronouncements without supporting evidence on why things they don't understand are stupid....
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proindrakenzol
proindrakenzol
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