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  • Black Fox
    replied to Pegasus and Fenris
    Well, that's an artifact of every player using the same character creation rules. Those are just for PCs. It's not that every Garou ever born has the exact same theoretical number of "build points" which is a meaningless concept outside a game. All PCs get the same build points for character creation. People aren't equal in the natural talents born to them, how well they've developed them, or how ambitious they are in improving themselves or the opportunities presented to them, and therefore neither are the Garou as characters. NPCs don't need to be made according to character creation...
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  • Black Fox
    replied to Pegasus and Fenris
    Every tribe obviously has some sort of minimum standard that must be achieved before they rule their cubs are ready for their Rite of Passage, even if this is something handwaved during character creation. The Fenrir rites are supposed to be so brutal that cubs can die. While I think later editions downplayed that (possibly because earlier editions showed far more Garou than would be justified in later editions), that still happens. So I think the Get must have some level of physical standards that cause people to wash out. They may still respect a Get of Fenris who only has a physical Strength...
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    Last edited by Black Fox; 09-17-2021, 09:16 PM.

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  • Vampirism brings out the worst tendencies of people, but it takes time before the Beast erodes Humanity. So most brand new neonates will average around Humanity 6-7. Let's called it 6.5. Most elders will be at Humanity 4-5, or 4.5. Ancilla are therefore likely around 5.5. Probably 80% of vampires in those categories will easily fit within that range.

    But a significant number (20%) will have lower Humanity. Those will include the real sociopaths and monsters. And will include those in power who have needed to kill to either maintain the vampire social order or to defend their...
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  • This is really dependent on the ST and the player group. A lot of people see Disciplines as fairly easy and quick to learn. Others actually see them as a sort of "discipline" that needs to be mastered. So you are going to get a wide variety of answers. None of them are right, and none of them are wrong. It's really what the game group that you are with finds acceptable. What's cool? What's fun? What makes sense given the unique tastes of you and the other players?

    And of course since many chronicles take place in contemporary times, the actual time scale of a chronicle...
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  • Black Fox
    started a topic Pegasus and Fenris

    Pegasus and Fenris

    In the game setting, the Pegasus Incarna has a problem with the Get of Fenris. In every edition of the corebook, the Pegasus pack totem explicitly will not accept any Get of Fenris as a pack member. And the two tribes have a long history of antagonism towards another.

    However, simply because two tribes do not get along does not mean the Incarna are quarreling. Both Uktena and Wendigo will accept pack members from the Eurasian tribes. Falcon has no issue with adopting Shadow Lords. The only similar issue is Griffin's blanket refusal to accept homids which is really tied into the...
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  • I think this is a strange assertion because historians mostly agree that the big reason Rome ended up ruling the Classical world around the Mediterranean is that the Romans were really good at sharing power (relative to other groups). The Plebians were brought into the Senate. By the era of Roman history most of us know about (the Late Republic), the conflict between Patricians and Plebians were at an end and irrelevant. The conflict that brought down the Republic, that between of the optimates and populares, were much more complex than pitting one group versus another. The Romans routinely...
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  • I'm reminded that the early books stated some things that were quickly forgotten in Revised. The first is the importance of the Brujah anti-tribu in the Sabbat, and that they are the leaders of the Loyalist movement which the Lasombra and Tzimsice constantly struggle against. And who are the closest allies of the Brujah anti-tribu? The Ventrue anti-tribu who are also key supporters of the Loyalists. It's not stated, but seems to be implied that the Ventrue provide the leadership to the Loyalists while the Brujah provide the numbers and passion. The Ventrue anti-tribu are also said to be a...
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  • I agree. It's fun to play with the unique mythos and lore of the setting, but if you do it too much and forget the source material that inspired it, then it's not always clear you are talking about vampires in the game as opposed to mutants, superheroes, elven paladins, or Highlander immortals....
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  • The original books placed Baltimore (Maryland and DC actually) as contested between the Sabbat and Camarilla (at least according to the IC perspective of the Sabbat). So it had a Prince but was under threat. (In contrast, Pennsylvania was shown as Sabbat controlled). Only with the Revised metaplot did Baltimore fall conclusively to the Sabbat.

    Now simply because an area is listed as "controlled" does not mean every city and every area was 100% Sabbat or Anarch or Camarilla. Most of New York was shown as Sabbat controlled, but at the time it was still acknowledged that...
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  • It's a little vague, but in general the Directorate is the clan leadership of the Ventrue. The Directorate are the elders of the Ventrue clan who meet to direct the clan's efforts. While every city has a "Board" of the Ventrue who reside there, there are Directorates that cover a greater geographical area. Thus you could take it to mean the leadership of the Ventrue within a particular city, a particular region, or the clan as a whole. I think it is currently in London where the clan meets for its overall leadership meetings. The local boards meet every first Tuesday of the month,...
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  • Black Fox
    replied to Personal totem question
    Garou are supposed to have only one totem at a time. So if a Garou does have a personal totem, he is not connected to any pack totem. And if he was previously connected to a pack totem and abandoned it for a personal totem, that's the equivalent of dumping your girlfriend or boyfriend for a new one. The old totem will not be pleased. And this should be played out with the other pack members. Not knowing the circumstances of your game and PC, that may be relevant. A PC could always have some kind of personal relationship with a spirt outside their pack totem, but that would be different than having...
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  • Another example is that in early Werewolf, there is an explicit or implied element of human sacrifice in a lot of tribes. Besides the Red Talons, it is mentioned in other places that the Black Furies and Shadow Lords do so, and clearly the Get of Fenris don't mind murdering humans. And it can show up in surprising places. At the Sept of the Green it says one of the caern totems, Mera, requires an annual ceremony when she asks the sept to perform a service. That service is typically to punish someone who has polluted her waters. While "punish" is fairly vague, I always imagined it...
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  • That is actually a really great sourcebook from the 2e Ravenloft setting. When I moved from home 20+ years ago, it was one of the few D&D sourcebooks I kept. There's a lot of stuff that is applicable to VtM especially elders. It does a great job discussing the normal vampire tropes and determining how to best use them in an RPG....
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  • I don't understand what you mean by that mummies are a recent development unless you are talking about Mummy: the Resurrection (a gameline I know very little about). The original WoD Mummy supplements all show mummies to be ancient. Although it's not stated exactly when Horus, the first mummy, was created, during character creation rules it tells players to pick anytime between 3500 BC to 1 BC as their birth year for their mummy character in 1e. In the 2e Mummy book, they mention a much smaller and later spread of "fourth century BC to the second century AD", but I think that was to...
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  • This sounds a lot like some of the comments I make. For example, deep into this thread (go to the fourth tab) I talk about how the Bone Gnawers of the Sept of the Green have many questionable dealings, and in this other thread I mention some of the issues with other tribes. These could very well be some of the threads you are remembering.

    The Garou are definitely portrayed as more morally conflicted characters in the early game. Every tribe has at least one camp that is either obviously of the Wyrm (in the sense that they appear treasonous), criminal in nature (though perhaps not...
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  • Exact relations of real mythological figures to potential characters in the WoD is always controversial. They could be "real" "deities" (Incarna, Aeons, whatever umbral figure), euhemerized figures based on a WoD supernatural figure, completely made up, or any combination of multiple things.

    For me, I usually based Egyptian gods on original euhemerized figures from the WoD games, later elaborated into legend and myth after they are dead. That's because so many of their gods are already identified as vampires, mages, mummies, etc. So I want to keep it as a story...
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  • I think it's best seen as an OOC attempt to 1) introduce a new tension into the Dark Ages setting to serve the purpose of something like the sect conflicts of the modern setting (more Elder/Cam vs Neonate/Anarchs than versus Sabbat) and 2) to better distinguish the Dark Ages setting from the modern Camarilla (something that should have been more pronounced, but lacking in its original presentation). I think it was a very artificial distinction. It clearly wasn't something developed naturally out of previous canon. And it didn't even necessarily make sense in-character. We previously were told...
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  • When vampires are first created, they don't have any Disciplines. Vampires are assumed to have learned their first Disciplines in the typically 5-25 years spent as a fledgling before their sire releases them. And not all sires give their childer extensive tutelage before letting them go out to hunt. Gangrel after all typically abandon their childer who have to figure out the methods of hunting on their own. So Disciplines aren't needed. They are just very, very useful. And yes, some of them are more useful - or at least obviously useful - than others.

    You learn to hunt by first going...
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    Last edited by Black Fox; 09-14-2021, 02:35 PM.

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  • I'll just give some general comments.

    First, the challenge to achieve Fostern is not generally hard. If a Cliath is a teenager just graduated from high school and ready to move out of his parents' house, then Fostern is somehow who has mastered being an adult. He holds a steady job, saved up some money, owns his own means of transportation, pays all his own bills, stays out of trouble, and is ready for the responsibilities of starting his own family. For Garou that means he is no longer making the typical rookie mistakes of Cliaths. He's proven he can be trusted to not damage...
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  • That was something I struggled with. On the one hand, I think as unliving corpses vampires are essentially "spiritually dead." But Auspex covers a lot of the same ground as other beings who I do think should appear as a reflection. And once you get to Psychic Projection, it's hard to argue a vampire isn't spiritually aware of things. While Auspex 1 might be insufficient, Auspex 2 or 3 is certainly expanding the vampire's mind into the same territory. I might just say that as a vampire develops Auspex, they begin to show an increasingly strong reflection, but might use the original...
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Black Fox
Black Fox
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Last Activity: Today, 04:05 PM
Joined: 05-18-2014
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