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  • Black Fox
    replied to [W20]Rules Light?
    My friends and I say that while we love the World of Darkness setting we hate the Storyteller system (the game mechanics).

    The way we try to run it now is to reduce the dice rolls to the absolute minimum. We utilize the rules designed to simplify things as much as possible. Some of my players have experience with diceless RPGs, so we try to utilize a lot of lessons from there for many scenes.

    So we encourage players to spend 1 WP to get one success, if that is all the success they need (especially for uncontested rolls where someone else is not trying to thwart you)....
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  • Black Fox
    replied to [W20]The Pit
    I had stopped buying White Wolf material by the time that book was published so it's interesting they were still building on it. I know you can also pull information from the Victorian Age Vampire setting, although much of that is done via the Dunsirn branch of the Giovanni/Cappadocian/Hecata vampire clan.

    Scotland is such an incredibly important place in the World of the Darkness because of the legacy of the White Howlers. It's just so small though that it can't hold that many Garou, even if we over populate it. It makes it an interesting puzzle for STs if they ever want to tell...
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  • I don't remember the clan of the vampires who "provided" the vitae for the Nagaraja experiment being mentioned in DSotBH. It was unnamed as far as I can recall. It's not mentioned in the actual bloodline description. Although it is possible I just missed it and its mentioned somewhere in the book. A lot of facts tend to not be mentioned in places where they should, or at least the text buries them so my eyes glaze over.
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  • Black Fox
    replied to [W20]The Pit
    It isn't just odd that the BSDs don't try to control the site of the original pit, but that the Garou don't as well because they would want to deny access to the BSDs. That neither really bother to do so likely means the site actually isn't all that useful to them at this time. There may not even be an access to the Spiral anymore at that location just some generic Wyrm domain that might intermittently appear. That might be a natural phenomenon, or it might be a result of continued efforts by the Garou to eliminate it.

    The BSDs don't need it anymore because they already know how...
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  • Black Fox
    replied to Albrecht sword.
    Going back to the original 1e corebook, we have the famous fight scene between Albrecht and Mari Cabrah that occurred over the many pages discussing Actions. This was later repeated in the 2e and W20 corebooks as well (though not Revised).

    In those illustrations, we see the Albrecht already has a klaive, though not a Silver Sword (what would be called a Grand Klaive later on). And we see that it is Mari that damages Albrecht's left eye (you can see that specifically on page 287 of the W20 corebook). Presumably Albrecht wanted to keep the Battle Scar and never healed it, perhaps...
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  • I believe one of the original explanations for Caitiffs was that it was a sign of the Blood thinning much like the Thin Blood Generations. It was a sign that the curse had run its course and Gehenna was approaching. Or it could be a sign of possible pollution, as it was speculated one reason there were so many Caitiff in the Sabbat was that so many embraces were done via the vaulderie chalice with vitae from multiple vampires mixed together.

    There seemed to be an earlier definition of Caitiff that was just a vampire rejected or abandoned by its sire and thus outside of vampire society....
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  • Black Fox
    replied to [W20]The Pit
    I can understand that. Most of the content should be OK, but the second and third chapters have references to rape and forced pregnancies. It's not Black Dog style content, but if that bothers you then either ignore those chapters or avoid the book entirely. The rest of the book is more historical and occult oriented. Much like how the Book of Nod and Revelations of the Dark Mother are supposed to be IC books for Vampire this is supposed to be a "real" book in the WoD. The IC reason for the book is a late sixties occult investigation of primary documents, undertaken by a BSD kinfolk...
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  • Black Fox
    replied to [W20]The Pit
    If you read the Chronicle of the Black Labyrinth, it gives a lot of clues as to the location of the place where the White Howlers descended into the Black Spiral. It is a collection of in-character texts so it takes close reading to pull all the information from it, and with all the usual caveats of how accurate such texts can be. I did not find it an easy read. It isn't hard to follow, but unless you are really interested in the subject, I suspect most people's eyes will glaze over and will put it down.

    But what I make out is that the location of the Scottish entrance to the Black...
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  • Black Fox
    replied to [W20]The Pit
    It's described as a labyrinth which is not a maze, but a single path concentric spiral. One of its entrances (but not the only) is the Temple Obscura in Malfeas. We know that the cubs of the Black Spiral Dancers enter it as part of their Rite of Passage as well as any new recruits from other tribes, and that there are nine circles to it. Walking the spiral tests the sanity of the Garou, many of whom receive a Derangement from one of the Urge Wyrms and becoming "insane" then joins the Dancers. Those who do not succumb to insanity are forced to walk the spiral again by the Black Spiral...
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  • Black Fox
    replied to The Fight Isn't Over
    I'll comment on this since it is a side discussion on the nature of spirits. I would argue that a lot of these associations with spirits, while arising from human culture in the real world, is because of more objective criteria in the World of Darkness setting.

    Stag doesn't have an association with the fey because a certain human culture made it so. It is because Stag made an ancient pact with the fey. And that is why none of his Garou children or spirit brood won't harm the fey. It is a direct command from the Incarna. It isn't clear why or how Stag made this pact, or with whom....
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  • Black Fox
    replied to The Fight Isn't Over
    Because an animal is still just an animal, and a plant is still the same plant. Animals, plants, minerals, etc. are always the same regardless of human culture. The essence of being a deer is always the same. It doesn't matter if the humans who live near them are Americans, Swedes, Russians, Indians, Chinese, or anyone else. Sure, maybe one area has white-tailed deer versus red deer versus sika deer or whatever. But those differences are still the differences between animals and not because of the human culture around them.

    I don't understand what point you are trying to make. Human...
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    Last edited by Black Fox; 11-14-2022, 09:14 PM.

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  • Black Fox
    replied to The Fight Isn't Over
    I don't mind that it is unclear either. I am very pro ST creating their own local variation of the setting to run the type of game they want. I am just saying if that if Justin and others are justifying their disruptive changes to the canonical setting in order to accomplish it, then there is a way to accomplish that while not causing all these changes. Whether that is necessary or not is debatable. Personally I agree with you that it isn't....
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  • Black Fox
    replied to The Fight Isn't Over
    I am not talking about the homids being Celts. I am talking about homids of whatever local culture still being followers of Stag, and thus recipients of Stag's instructions or requests, and their Garou culture (not the human culture of the homids) being informed by it. A spirit of Stag or its brood should be universal throughout the world. You don't get deer spirits (or rabbit or any other creature that may be part of that brood) acting different in parts of the world because the human culture is different.

    Furthermore, Garou are not isolated from one another like human cultures...
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  • Black Fox
    replied to The Fight Isn't Over
    Perhaps, but then all that is needed is probably one additional paragraph in a relevant section of the corebook. It doesn't take that much space to explain. Character examples elsewhere would just be examples calling out that section....
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  • Black Fox
    replied to The Fight Isn't Over
    This was pretty much true in the original incarnation of the game as well PROVIDED the totem accepts you. While Garou do have actual ancestral lineages that wasn't what determined one's tribe. There was early lore that most tribes would accept any Lost Cubs they found because they were desperate for new members, and that sometimes this would lead to conflicts between septs and tribes as they fought over who would claim/control those cubs. And the game always had rejects from certain tribes who had to join other tribes.

    It is just that certain totems had specific criteria that would...
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  • This is what I do:

    1. I always give Jaggling spirits names that they are known by the Garou and other spirits. That is not their True Name which is kept secret. It is just a name others refer to them, and the spirit might be known by multiple names. Also remember there are names that are pronounceable by Garou/humans, and what their Spirit Speech name might be. For example, a Wind spirit might be called by a name like "Summer Breeze" by Garou, but it's Spirit Speech name would be more like a pleasant breeze hitting your face, and the Theurge who knows Spirit Speech simply...
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  • Black Fox
    replied to Lab Grown Blood
    This comes down to personal taste. I am down on the section where this is not a scientific problem. Vampires aren't humans with special dietary needs. They are damned supernatural creatures animated from the dead to prey and parasitize the living. It is the life force that they are after.

    I would put lab grown blood on the bottom rung of "nutrition" for vampires, far worse than animal blood or donated blood. It perhaps some value, but a vampire would need to consume so much of it that it's practically worthless. You don't want a situation where vampires no longer need...
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  • As I said the maps are very crude, but for certain realms, like the Cyberrealm, the map's visual provided me a very different idea of the realm's layout than just having the text description in revised. And the fact that there even are maps for places like the Legendary Realm, the Summer Country, and Pangea was surprising. Simply having those would help me construct a scenario or adventure if a group of PCs quested there and I wanted them to traverse through it for some time. Otherwise I'd just have some very generic terrain in mind. For me, having some guidance like this spurs my creativity...
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  • ‚Äč

    In my opinion, it's a neglected, hidden gem of a sourcebook. It has a lot of cool stuff that is not mentioned again in subsequent sourcebooks.



    There's several reasons why I like the original Umbra sourcebook. First, it gives us maps, no matter how crudely, of what each of the Near Realms are supposed to be like. The visualization helps me a lot in terms of how I, as the ST, should describe things if the PCs attempt to navigate it. Second, I think its description of Umbral travel and hazards are more helpful than Revised. Third, it has a better selection...
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  • Black Fox
    replied to The Fight Isn't Over
    If you want your Lon Chaney, Jr tragic wolfman who fears what he might do when he changes, you emphasize aspects of the setting like Lunatics, Lost Cubs, Ronin, Rage, the Curse, and certain Flaws. They exist precisely for that reason. It's not that the game does not have them, but that they are often forgotten or not mentioned. A single chapter in some sourcebook is probably all that is needed to provide the tools to STs and players who want that kind of experience in the game. You don't need to radically change the setting.

    If you want something like Touchstones, then make it...
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Black Fox
Black Fox
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Last Activity: Today, 02:55 AM
Joined: 05-18-2014
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