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  • Tell this stuff to him outright. "I'm running a roleplay-focused game and I'd like the PCs to have significant interpersonal connections to the setting. Combat won't be a big focus next to political intrigue. I know this isn't the type of game you usually play, but I think you could have a lot of fun with it if you're willing to give things a chance. Here's some advice for how to make a PC who will do well in this type of game."

    If he doesn't think he'll fun in your politics-focused chronicle, great. Better if he tells you up front. It'll just be frustrating for everyone...
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  • And that's pretty much exactly how. "Ascension/Transcendence is a big mystery. It could all be a fraud. Embrace the certainty of Descent/Oblivion, because at least you know what you're dealing with. And let's be honest, the current world/Underworld sucks too badly to even be fixable. Getting rid of it would be doing everyone a favor."

    It's your headcanon, and you don't have to abide by the writers' intention that those arguments are sophistry covering up what's essentially pure nihilism. Running a game where Descent/Oblivion isn't all bad would radically alter the tone of...
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  • Transcendence.

    Pretty much all the arguments you've been making for why Nephandi/Spectres/Black Spiral Dancers/et al aren't bad guys are the same ones they make to string along dupes.

    "Transcendence/Ascension/saving Gaia is too hard/a lie/not viable. Embrace Oblivion/Descension/the Wyrm."...
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  • Or maybe humans coming along was what gave them their first real foothold into the world. Nephandi, Spectres, Black Spiral Dancers, Baali, Pentex, Akuma, infernalists... these all come from the same place, and hint, it's not the Deep Umbra.

    Without agents to act on their behalf, cosmic horrors like the Neverborn are pretty powerless, at least where the material world is concerned. And humans have been making them powerful ever since the first caveman took a club to another caveman's skull just for ha has. That's one of the arguments the Nephandi make for how terrible humanity is....
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    Last edited by False Epiphany; 04-08-2018, 01:47 PM.

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  • They failed.

    Because "the Neverborn won and destroyed existence" means no WoD to play games in....
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  • That's just another lie they tell people. Usually mages who are on the brink of becoming Nephandi themselves, if they are seriously contemplating "destroy all existence" as a valid viewpoint to embrace. The caveat to replace the current universe with something better makes them feel they're walking into the Cauls for non-selfish reasons, but once they step out they're past any such illusions....
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  • Road of Humanity, probably at a middling rating. He still sounds basically human in his thinking. Not the greatest human and not the worst human.
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  • In fairness to White Wolf, not all KotE books followed the "better because Asian" model. But the line as a whole was more mixed than steadily improving. San Francisco and Sunset Empires both came out after Shadow War....
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  • It's the same in other books. In San Francisco by Night, the Kuei-Jin waltz into California and take over. When Kindred try to conquer Asian cities in Sunset Empires, despite having an even bigger advantage thanks to European colonialism, the Kuei-Jin stymie their efforts.

    '90s White Wolf believed Kuei-Jin were better than the Kindred, because Asian....
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False Epiphany
False Epiphany
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Last Activity: Yesterday, 08:20 AM
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