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  • SchreckNet (at least the non Anarch20 version...) is a computer system. It doesn't run on blood, it isn't an immortal predator, it doesn't have mystical powers. You don't need to know anything about vampires to hack it - you just need to know it might be out there and have a clue regarding how to access it. On the plus side, since vampires are mostly still taught the basics of their existence in person, it's somewhat likely the files that were siphoned off between the spook clicking on "Download All" and the Nosferatu pulling the plug on a server somewhere didn't actually contain a "How...
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  • I think there already are some hints about their inter-agency problems, with noone sharing as much intel as they should and thus some basic truths about vampires remaining unknown - the core book had the first example with one of the handouts claiming that vampires could be killed by being staked because the one guy they tested it on was clever enough to play dead afterwards and they presumably didn't corroborate it with other agencies....
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  • I think our differences come from me reading "humans are a threat" mostly as "If humanity as a whole found out, we'd be dead", less as "if hunter group x found out, we'd be in a city- or species-wide fight for our unlives that we may or may not lose". Were there post-First-Inquisition any known situations where a hunter group actually sucessfully fumigated a city rather than killing a few vampires?
    I think the previous "If humanity as a whole finds out, we'd be dead" had the problem that it was too big a threat. If that ever happened, the setting is...
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    Last edited by Cifer; 11-23-2019, 09:42 AM.

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  • Maybe we've had different experiences then, but previously, I felt that hunters were usually a relatively minor problem compared to everything else that was going on. Government agencies were always of the "isolated, underfunded" type and barely ever made an appearance, the Leopoldians were described as losing even their True Faith due to Bauer's leadership practices. To get the full "A group of commandos is storming your haven" package, you previously had to anger the Prince, not any sort of hunter group.

    Additionally, yes, "the other x-files group"...
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  • But that's not the case at all. There are still unaffiliated hunter (maybe even Hunter) groups.There are still solo operations of various groups - when the Leopoldians catch wind of a holy relic, they'll definitely want to make sure it goes to one of their churches rather than being stashed in the great government warehouse with "top men working on it". And since the SI couldn't really send out a conference invitation "Fangcon 01", there are certainly still some cells traipsing in the dark without context – and "make sure they don't join up with the bigger organisation"...
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  • It's a good thing you didn't, because quite a few clan books describe how much the second world war sucked for most local kindred involved - the industries you've built up? In ruins. Your herd? Deported and murdered. Your ghoul? Conscripted and sent to the eastern front. Doesn't matter though because your haven was fire-bombed along with the rest of the city.

    Apart from the fact that there are enough people in this thread who did argue that kindred infiltration absolutely would have stopped the SI: I think it may have been a frog-boil situation. Law enforcement and intelligence agencies...
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    Last edited by Cifer; 11-22-2019, 07:34 PM.

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  • Then how does anything ever happen in the WoD? Second World War? Surely someone should have figured out what this Hitler guy was up to and have him dominated into becoming a good little puppet! French revolution? First Inquisition?
    From Revised onward, the game designers sensibly decided that Vampires had quite an impressive amount of influence, but far less control than they'd actually like to have, especially in areas that are hotly contested between vampires. Because a single vampire's spies from a single agency getting rooted out could just as well merit a response of "If I tell...
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    Last edited by Cifer; 11-22-2019, 06:42 PM.

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  • Camarilla, page 158:

    Of course, this is yet another unreliable narrator and I personally hope there won't be a definitive version of events unless it's uncovered at the end of a chronicle about just that topic. But as CTPhipps pointed out, "things are not as they first appear" is kind of the standard for WoD plot....
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    Last edited by Cifer; 11-22-2019, 05:58 PM.

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  • Cifer
    replied to Batman's Clan
    I'd say Lasombra is most fitting. Heavy emphasis on darkness and fear as a tool of keeping people in line. I think previous editions had a version of the path of night that emphasized playing the bogeyman to scare people straight.
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  • And I'm guessing humans can't ever be anything but "level 0 D&D peasants" in your eyes? Because otherwise, I think agents of various intelligence agencies might rank a little higher than that.
    Of course, if you say that's the highest humans could ever amount to, I would again ask a) why the game is named after the very fact that vampires have to hide their existence and b) how the first inquisition ever became such a terror that it inspired the whole Masquerade thing in the first place. Yes, some inquisitors had True Faith. So do some of the new ones - they're cooperating with...
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  • ... and on the other hand there are supposedly competent murderers and robbers who get caught within days because they did something stupid or the investigators caught a lucky break.
    Plus, the precognitive abilities of Auspex didn't exactly thwart the first Inquisition either, did they?

    Again: Noone says the SI is all-competent. Vampires are still around in lots of places.We know that, because the game is still called Vampire: The Masquerade, not Ashes: The Nope. Canon calls out one (supposedly) fang-free city and it's the place with the sixth-highest density of surveillance...
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  • I guess getting diablerized by someone of ridiculously weak generation is also a pretty good protection against the Beckoning....
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  • One important thing about the Beckoning is that it's relatively random in frequency. You can have cities that are suddenly completely de-eldered while others are fairly unaffected. Basically: Whatever is most convenient for the story you want to tell, whether it's "The cat's away and the neonates play", "elders send in coteries to secure the assets of the one guy who left" or "Many elders have left, the others resort to draconian measures to retain their rule and the whole city's close to boiling over".
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  • Cifer
    replied to V5 - Handling Spectres
    Since you mention V5 in particular, do you have access to previous editions of Wraith or Orpheus? I'd mostly go with those, pick a few Arcanoi/Horrors and use them narratively.
    Luckily, vampires are usually considered relatively resistant against possession as the Beast is not in the mood for sharing – dpesn't mean you can't describe them feeling something clawing at their mind, trying to get in, of course.

    By the way, is there a reason why the hospital is haunted by spectres rather than wraiths? AFAIK, Giovanni prefer dealing with the latter, but of course, spectres make...
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    Last edited by Cifer; 11-19-2019, 09:50 AM.

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  • Agreed. While I think the Hunger system could use a bit of rebalancing (the sheer amount of messies and bestials is a little too high depending on how often you roll per scene), I absolutely love the basic concept. Compared to the previous editions' "gas tank" rules, this is a whole different Beast.
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  • Zak Smith, aka Zak Sabbath....
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  • Additionally, while VtM does not describe its setting as sexist (because such settings happen to restrict and alienate half your potential customer base), I think it would make perfect sense for vampiric society to be at least partially sexist. Yes, we've all heard the "You don't get to be sexist to Queen Anne or racist to Theo Bell" line. But consider the average: The threadstarter noted that many vampires are embraced because they are exceptional. That's not quite correct – they are embraced because they are perceived to be exceptional, which means they needed to be in a position where...
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  • The books make it pretty clear that the Neonate is usually taught to avoid just that behaviour - using individual codes instead of the traditional names, setting a few status updates to be sent out during the day time, etc. It's not perfect and there's something to be said for the Camarilla approach, but then again, that also means the elder is at risk with every traffic stop for not officially existing – the risk being minimal of course, because elder, but still a potential hiccup that might sometime get flagged somewhere....
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  • I don't think anyone said the vampires will just lay down and die. That said, quite a few vampiric tactics can be disabled or weakened with some basic countermeasures: Don't hold meetings at nighttime, don't make eye-contact, always check your natural perception with technical assistance, don't trust that your fellow operatives are not getting suborned (because spooks are generally trusting folks...). In the end, it's two covert enemies trying to scout each other. The one that maps the enemy network first likely wins.

    That said, vampiric society as it is written is not set up to survive...
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  • Replace "Second Inquisition" with "Sabbat" and tell me what changes, assuming "step 3" mostly happens at daytime....
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Cifer
Cifer
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Last Activity: 11-30-2019, 08:56 AM
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