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  • Holy
    replied to Reasons to run 1st edition Vampire
    Yes it is. You've changed the statements in your comparison and I agree in that case.



    Agree on the first sentence. Disagree on the second, because once again you are leaving out the big part of the story that Requiem directly evolved from Masquerade and that Gangrel from one were billed and seen as a replacement / reskin to the other. It's not comparing feral vampires in Masquerade to feral vampires in the Witcher games or Ravenloft. Comparing the intelligence of humans and tomatoes is not usefully analogous to comparing the intelligence between chimps and humans....
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  • Holy
    replied to Reasons to run 1st edition Vampire
    Masquerade is supported again, not still. For seven years it was an unsupported franchise that had reached a logical conclusion (Gehenna) and had been completely rebooted as Requiem. V20 brought Masquerade back from the dead and Paradox now intends to give it and the old World of Darkness a full, new life.



    And I'm going to forgive the person who says the edition of Vampire after Masquerade: Revised was Requiem: 1st Edition.




    Saying Requiem and Masquerade are two different editions of Vampire is a more accurate statement than saying Requiem...
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  • Holy
    replied to Reasons to run 1st edition Vampire
    Alright, then I think we are just arguing over semantics.

    For these two statements:
    1. "Masquerade Celerity felt more powerful as it gave you extra actions per turn, while in Requiem, Celerity concentrates more on defense and movement, with active use being just an initiative jump."
    2. "Celerity is one of the disciplines that got nerfed in Requiem from Masquerade."
    The first one is fine, but the second one peeves your pets, as it were? As long as you're not actually invalidating comparisons between Spheres and Arcana or Requiem Blood Potency and Masquerade Generation,...
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  • Holy
    replied to Reasons to run 1st edition Vampire
    Except from my experience this is what happened in reality and it made perfect sense. I participated in long discussions about these things when talking about switch-over between the editions. "Ventrue lose Presence and gain Animalism? What a rip." These were real world legitimate conversations and I don't see how they are invalidated by the semantics of: 'Technically, they are different franchises, so we shouldn't even be comparing them.'

    Talking about or comparing Masquerade Nosferatu vs. Requiem Nosferatu is not the same conversation as talking about or comparing Pathfinder...
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    Last edited by Holy; 04-21-2017, 03:00 PM. Reason: edited for tone

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  • Holy
    replied to Reasons to run 1st edition Vampire
    I don't agree with your Pathfinder analogy, because that was done by a 3rd party under an open publishing license with particular requirements not to replace the original work. (I'm not familiar with 13th Age).

    Requiem and Masquerade are different editions of the Vampire game line. If you want to argue that they are different franchises of the line, yeah - that's true.

    "Hey, you guys interested in a game of Vampire this weekend?"
    "Which edition - Masquerade, Requiem?"

    The answer here should probably be one of the many editions of...
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  • Holy
    replied to Reasons to run 1st edition Vampire
    A continuation of publishers. A continuation of concepts. Of many themes. Of many rules. Of many terms and many definitions. Some things changed, some more than others. Some things remained. The timeline did not remain.

    You seem able to see the above and conclude that you can't use the word 'continuation' in an accurate manner when discussing Requiem and Masquerade. I see the same words and conclude the exact opposite. Thank you for expressing your viewpoint (truly, I do like game theory discussions and I'm bored at work), but I think we're at that agree-to-disagree impasse as I don't...
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  • Holy
    replied to Reasons to run 1st edition Vampire
    Are you saying they don't share conflict, setting and character features? It's pretty clear to me they do, even when some of them have evolved and changed. And don't get me wrong, I like those evolutions. It takes me a bit to adjust my mindset to play Masquerade as I feel like it's going backwards. And that's not meant as a dig to anyone who prefers Masquerade over Requiem, people should use the tools they enjoy most. So I don't think anyone is denying real differences.



    Are they? I think it's possible to both recognize that Masquerade & Requiem don't share IC-continuity,...
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  • Holy
    replied to Reasons to run 1st edition Vampire
    Except for the hair-splitting semantics of it not being a linear continuation of the previous Wrath of Khan movie, yes - I would in fact say that. It is the same characters, the same conflicts, the same universe - retold by a different director and creative team (writers, actors, etc).

    But yes, if you want me to say it isn't a direct continuation - I guess you win that one. Requiem wasn't meant as a 'direct continuation' either - i.e. After the Gehenna plotline all the characters in Masquerade didn't suddenly find themselves ported to the Requiem timeline/universe for a redo.
    ...
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  • Holy
    replied to Reasons to run 1st edition Vampire
    I am unconvinced by the arguments that Requiem is not the spiritual successor to Masquerade. They share focus, they share themes, they share mechanics, and they share terminology. The semantic argument over 'sequel vs. replacement vs. version vs. incarnation' is splitting hairs. Every Vampire gaming table had to make a decision when Requiem came out - play in the new version, or keep playing with the now unsupported version (v20 was not on the radar). These were not the same arguments that a table would have over whether to play D&D or Shadowrun.

    CofD is it's own thing now because...
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    Last edited by Holy; 04-21-2017, 12:37 PM.

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  • Holy
    replied to [2E] Alternative Daeva Clan Bane
    I posit that there's a classic archetype here you could take advantage of. Though to be fair, some might call it cliche. But rejecting the kiss or being ashamed of it fits pretty well with an Abrahamic zealot. How does he react to this nightly need for what he considers perversion or infidelity? What happens when his beast gets the better of him and he indulges? What kind of mortals does he search out to feed on? Does he try to find a new victim each night, trying to limit any sort of connection whatsoever with his victims? Does he try and find the 'perfect' mortal to feed from? Someone holy and...
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  • If timing is critical and the actions are incompatible (for some reason they can't just occur simultaneously), then I go with an initiative roll - with allowance of celerity pre-emption....
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  • My only hesitation is the flavor text: When finished drinking, the vampire merely licks the wound, and it closes, much as he can force his own blood, or Vitae, to seal his wounds.

    And since Kindred flesh isn't living, I could ... maybe ... see a stretch. But, yeah, I think I'll be saying (undead flesh != dead flesh) in this case....
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  • Can you lick the 'feeding wounds' of a corpse to close them?

    Context - character has brief but unfettered access to a morgue and wants to take a blood sample from a murder victim. Has no medicine skill, so wants to drain the blood manually and spit into a sample cup. Gonna let that fly, but I'm thinking the bite wound may not respond to the lick like a living victim would.
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Holy
Holy
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