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[AkatsukiLeader13]

It will be made available to the public in time. None of the stretch goals have ever been KS exclusives. Backers just get them early and free.

I'd imagine it will become available for purchase in a couple of weeks....

[AkatsukiLeader13]

While I do understand where you're coming from, I think you're being a bit too rigid here. Yes, Room 101 exists. But they don't send every troublemaker there. It's reserved for the worst offenders, renegades and traitors. Nor does the Technocracy punish innovative and imaginative agents. They will punish those that are dangerously reckless or regularly disobedient but then so would any organization. And even then, Room 101 and the severe punishments are only for those morons that don't seem to get the memo that being a reckless jackass is a bad thing. Again, like any other organization...

[AkatsukiLeader13]

Honestly at this point, 'being sent to the Middle East' might as well be 5E's 'Put on a Bus'.

[AkatsukiLeader13]

Honestly all this talk about which Tribe has gone rogue and Fascism has reminded me of my single biggest fear of 5E, them reverting the Technocracy back to what it was when MtAs first dropped or worse, turn them into complete jack-booted Techno-Fascists, or even more dreaded, turning them into the Alt-Right but Mages despite how utterly stupid that is. Completely ignoring 20+ years of development and nuance. And potentially declaring that the modern the Technocracy/Order of Reason helped forge is terrible while the past where monsters were in the forests just outside town, arrogant Mages could...

[AkatsukiLeader13]

Well the thing you have to understand with the Imbued is that they are literally the newest splat in-universe. While the breed of Mummy in MtR is also new version of it, some of the new Mummies are actually older Mummy types turned into new ones. So they have individuals that have been around for a while and know things. Orpheus, the last line of WoD even predates the Imbued as the Orpheus Group was conducting projection experiments as far bad as 1996. The Imbued for their part started in 1999 after the Sixth Great Maelstrom.

In fact, in The Walking Dead book a big plot point...

[AkatsukiLeader13]

Man I wish this forum had multi-quote...

Except DtF has always admitted that the Fallen's memories are damaged and questionable as well as the fact that early Earth was... weird and abstract before God reacted to what the Fallen were doing and changed/broke the world into what it is in the rest of the WoD. I will be talk more about that below but as it stands, DtF admits that their backstory is strange, incomplete and contradictory, kind of like everybody else's. The only one that has the answers in DtF is Lucifer and he's not exactly going around talking to people anymore than...

[AkatsukiLeader13]

That's because they tend not to reference the creation myths of other lines in their material. Even when Caine, the First Murder and his transformation into a vampire is brought up in DtF it's different from how it's presented in VtM.

For example in the previously mentioned Days of Fire, while it roughly starts the same with Caine murdering Abel for... well differing reasons depending on the source, what happens next is different. Caine starts slandering God and basically causes not just the birth of murder and lies but sparks the war between the Rebel Angels and the Loyalists....

[AkatsukiLeader13]

Simple. Training, knowledge and support. Just because you Awakened into Magick doesn't mean you automatically understand how you did it, especially if your Beliefs don't conform to those more obviously magical in nature. Traditions, Conventions and Crafts can provide greater understanding to you without months or even years of trial and error. They can provide you with resources and tools that could be hard or even impossible to get.

And at the same time, they can provide you with security and protection from other supernaturals as well as a community of like-minded individua...

[AkatsukiLeader13]

Actually the DtF Book of Nod equivalent, Days of Fire connects the pair to DtF as well.



Obviously we're talking about an in-universe book which has it's own questionable legitimacy but it was supposedly written by Lucifer and he would the one to know who's an angel and who's not, especially since he was the only Fallen not subjected to the Abyss and the memory loss and distortion it caused. And he calls them Angels so we have to assume he's talking about his fellow Angels and not some other kind of entity.

And while it rather poetic and flowery, it's pretty...

[AkatsukiLeader13]

I've seen people who didn't care for HtR and preferred HH and HtV expressing displeasure at this as well, not because it's something they don't want but because they too feel it's an insult to the HtR fans who loved playing the Imbued and/or that they are taking away options from players which is never a popular thing.

Not helped that it doesn't feel like we can talk to the WoD Devs. While they do have a Youtube Channel and a Discord, there isn't to my knowledge an official forum where people could express their feelings and potentially hear back from the Devs. Instead, it really...

[AkatsukiLeader13]

The frustrating thing is that we're not going to get an H20 so all we have is the original material now. And if I remember right OPP did have an H20 proposal that Paradox shot down so it's not like such a project wouldn't have happened. If we had gotten H20, I think many of us long time fans would have grumbled about H5 but we would have been content that at least we had a 20E to tune up the game and better help us play the original game in the modern day.

And if I'm completely honest, the cynical part of me now thinks that Paradox shot it down because they already had the H5 concept...

[AkatsukiLeader13]

Yeah and really frustratingly they could have done what they talked about H5 containing with the Imbued. It's been 20+ years since the Imbued started appearing. Groups and factions would have formed among them since then. HtR had street-level action by default and design as the whole point was that these were random people being chosen.

As for the metaplot and being tied to the looming Time of Judgement, 5E has very much taking the stance that perhaps the Apocalypse did happen but not as everyone was expecting. Even if the 6GM is retconned away, the Week of Nightmares isn't and...

[AkatsukiLeader13]

Indeed. It'd be like VtM Rulebook only having rules for Ghouls yet still wanting to call it Vampire: the Masquerade. While you can play Ghoul games, VtM is not about Ghouls, it's about Vampires. By that same token Hunter: the Reckoning is about the Imbued, not the various other Hunters. Releasing a Core Book that strips out the Imbued while calling it HtR is absurd.

So far everything I've heard about this project says to me that it's not Hunter: the Reckoning Fifth Edition, it's Hunters Hunted Fifth Edition. It's just that someone got it in their head to call it Hunter: the Reckoning...

[AkatsukiLeader13]

I have to agree with this. It seems like everyone except for the folks at Onyx Path don't seem to understand the World of Darkness and are either turn it into the World of Slight Twilight or Chronicles of Darkness: World of Darkness Edition.

The World of Darkness was always meant to be a darker, worse version of our world. None of the factions we play in are meant to be Paragons of Virtue but flawed institutions that often times are as much a cause of their problems as outside forces are. Yet often times we want to fight for these flawed institutions, to correct their flaws and...

[AkatsukiLeader13]

Sure they were but that knowledge was completely out of the PC's knowledge. They had no idea who or what the Messengers were. In fact that was reoccurring thing in the chat room conversations they were having, with the Imbued throwing around different ideas on what they were. In fact there was a UFO-nut who utterly believed the Messengers were aliens.

It would have been very easy for H5 to take the simple stance of never explaining what the Messengers were, saying to ST that they can be anything they want to be, angels, aliens, eldritch gods, etc.

The only thing I can...

[AkatsukiLeader13]

Yeah pretty much. The Tribes being overhauled to be tied to specific geographic areas and real world cultures is fine and I honestly think is something long overdue. For some Tribes it never really mattered but others had the annoying trait of demanding PCs be of a certain ethnic group or from a certain area.

But everything else is at best questionable until we see how it is executed and at worst, a massive retcon of a long existing setting for questionable reasons.

Years ago I had a high school friend was Metis and we did play some WtA. He wasn't crazy about the name...

[AkatsukiLeader13]

Yeah, like if they wanted to do a book on regular hunters, they should have done a Hunters Hunted 3 or something like OPP's Ghost Hunters where it's a book dedicated to those hunters, with the Imbued like in HH2 being separated from the rest and kept in their gameline. A book that consolidates all the hunters that aren't Imbued, the Society of Leopold or the SI. Fans old and new would have been happy with that. But now they've pissed off old fans of HtR by getting rid of the Imbued and slapping the HtR label on... well I guess all the Hunters now.

Once again it seems that people...

[AkatsukiLeader13]

And suddenly my interest in this has taken a near fatal hit. I love the Imbued and if I wanted to play disparate hunter groups working together, I'd play Hunter: the Vigil.

[AkatsukiLeader13]

Okay I am legitimately surprised here. Both that H5 is being done but that also sounds like that it might actually be here before W5 and really the rest of the WoD Five. Like I would have figured that they would want to at least do the other two of the Big Three and get them out before even beginning to work on a minor line like HtR.