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[AkatsukiLeader13]

Oh? Did Night Road say anything about them or just name drop them?

[AkatsukiLeader13]

Indeed. And that's the thing, there is a lot of internal loyalty within the Clan. It's a Family. Sure, you have have your beefs with individuals but at the end of the night, you're still loyal to your Family. Those younger Giovanni that revolted in the events led up to the Family Reunion were not revolting against the Clan, they were fed up with Augustus' BS about the Endless Night and the rigid control on power the old, foolish Elders had and their inability to cope with the changes going on in the world.

The Puttanesca may be thugs and crooks but they are still part of the Family...

[AkatsukiLeader13]

Honestly the Putanesca (or the Puttanesca as they're called in V20 and V5) not knowing Necromancy is relic a bygone early time VtM as only the first Giovanni Clan Book claims they don't know Necromancy (which is presented entirely from a Giovanni that is dismissive of them already so take it with a grain of salt) while the Rev Ed CB (which is also being presented from the mouth of a Giovanni albeit one that seems less biased against them) simply says they have limited knowledge of Necromancy. V20 Lore of the Clans barely mentions the Puttanesca, giving them one sentence in the Minor Families...

[AkatsukiLeader13]

True but MtAs has it's own answer for that, the Technopandi, the Nephandi infiltrators in the Technocracy. Which frankly works a lot better, especially with how M20 has been handling the Nephandi.

Like Data said, using the Antes or the Weaver as the secret master of the Technocracy is fine for VtM and WtA respectively but it doesn't work as well with MtAs.

Honestly one of the really wonky parts of early MtAs was how they tried to smash the WtA Cosmology with MtAs, complete with them linking various Mage groups to the Triad when it really didn't make sense with the rest...

[AkatsukiLeader13]

Actually [Ravnos] while not dead, was injured by the blast. We do see him just before the sunlight hits him and while it's hard to tell what was caused by the blast and what caused by the fighting before it, he was burnt and his eyes had been melted. One of his arms had been torn off but that was more likely caused by the fighting. In fact the Wan-Kuei elder I had mentioned before in previous posts witnessed him in that state and noted that he was radiating 'hallucinations of pain' as he staggered towards her.

Of course that is not to say he was near death as said elder also noted...

[AkatsukiLeader13]

Not really because the WoN was again, an Apocalyptic Battle in it's own right. That it was stopped doesn't change that nor the fact that it wasn't the preview of worse things to come. That's arguing that a Hurricane isn't bad because it wasn't followed up by worse Hurricanes....

[AkatsukiLeader13]

Tecknology is an old, out of date word that early MtAs material to refer to the Awakened Science and Technology of the Technocracy, like how the magic of Mages has been referred to as Magick. But it was silly and honestly didn't match with the nature of the Technocracy. Enlightened Science and Hypertechnology are the terms replaced it. Enlightened Science is the umbrella term for the advanced science the Technocracy practices while Hypertechnology refers to their advanced technological devices.



Well first off, they were actually Hypertech Neutron bombs. The 'spirit...

[AkatsukiLeader13]

Because that appears to be what White Wolf and OPP were doing. Most see the Reckoning as something that happened while the events that followed didn't. V5 is very clearly post-WoN.

And honestly I think a lot of people for years were playing in that post-1999 world. I know all my modern games have been such. It's part of the norm for us.

Given that these events have also removed the leadership of the Traditions and the Technocracy, allowing for changes within both groups, for younger minds to take charge and take their groups down different paths, paths that the old...

[AkatsukiLeader13]

Yeah. Elder Wan-Kuei are pretty divorced from human mortality by default due to how one becomes a Bodhisattva. In fact, while we don't get their PoV or really for that matter the fight itself, the Wan-Kuei PoV is presented through another one who's observing the fight from afar with her disciplines and... well he's only ever referred to as a 'serpent-man' but it's implied he's a Changeling (a Fu Hsi) rather than a Fera as the pair seem too friendly with one another for him to be a Fera. Oh and he too is helping out with the storm as as one she asks him to strengthen the clouds over them....

[AkatsukiLeader13]

I do not have that book so I cannot comment on that. However it depends on how that material was presented because if it was presented from an in-universe perspective that doesn't necessarily make it true just want that person or group believes.

As for the Technocrats knowing, they couldn't. As I said, all their teams being sent were getting rapidly killed while their spy satellites could not penetrate the dark clouds summoned to block the sun. They were largely blind as an apocalyptic battle was going on between vampires that were wielding unprecedented power. Like I said, their...

[AkatsukiLeader13]

Could I get a book and page number on that because I don't recall that and my quick searches have only brought up the character entries on the three Bodhisattvas and I did not see anything to suggest that within those entries. The most I saw was talk of Wan Kuei speculating things about the battle but even then none of that was claiming they were definitely going to win. And even if it was, what in-universe character speculation does not make it true. By that same token, depending on where and how it is written it could be from an in-character perspective which also means it may not be true...

[AkatsukiLeader13]

Actually Jones wasn't Nephandi, he was potentially rogue, potentially undercover in the Orphic Circle. He also didn't drop a nuke on the Labyrinth (or at least didn't get the chance to) and that did not cause the Avatar Storm. That caused the Sixth Great Maelstrom, which itself was by the Smiling Lord dropping a relic nuke on Enoch in the Shadowlands, with the shockwave of said nuke causing Jones' nuke to go off as he was traveling the Labyrinth.

And the Stygian invasion of Enoch that lead to said nuking was itself arranged by the Ferrymen at the behest of the God Anubis whom ages...

[AkatsukiLeader13]

Well for starters it's purely personal for me as like I said, the modern Hollow Ones being mistaken about their origins doesn't affect me. Again, they're a disorganized, mercurial Craft, changing with the times.

Second, the Victorian Hollow Ones still fill a lot of the same niches as their modern counterparts. Bored, jaded, dissatisfied or nihilistic people, DIY Occultists, Counter Culture, etc. Even the reframing of Hollow One name to refer to the dissatisfaction and emptiness felt by lower class people in this changing, industrializing world is in keeping with themes of the modern...

[AkatsukiLeader13]

Those are side boxes, they're not meant to be a detailed explanation on how these things turn out, especially when we're dealing with potential alternate timelines that themselves will depend on the individual table playing. They left that stuff vague because they that with alternate timelines and histories, most Players and Storytellers are going to want to craft them on their own.

As for the other Conventions in the divided Union outcome, they put the other rival factions against each other. Everyone who knows the Technocracy knows that the NWO and Syndicate have been rivals. Even...

[AkatsukiLeader13]

Yeah, the actions of [Ravnos] and Wan Kuei Bodhisattva during the Weeks of Nightmares were utterly destructive. The Technocracy didn't just decide they were going to nuke them. They sent a number of combat teams to the fight but they only lasted for moments such was the destructive power of the battle. Them declaring for the first and so far only time, Operation Ragnarok was a sign of just how desperate the situation was. Ragnarok is their final contingency, when all other attempts have failed and the situation is so world-threatening, the Technocracy is willing to use their Hypertechnology...

[AkatsukiLeader13]

Actually their original write-up in the Book of Crafts talks about how while they did go into decline following the Great Betrayal and them leaving the Traditions, becoming the Children of Knowledge, the Industrial Revolution, this era saw them beginning their return. The guilt over the Great Betrayal has not just past but members were realizing that there was more to Heylel's actions, a purpose to it. A notion that would lead to their theory of the Tenth Sphere, Unity.

M20 doesn't actually contradict that. It talks about how they were around, that while many thought then gone...

[AkatsukiLeader13]

Like all their KS manuscripts, they're backers only.

[AkatsukiLeader13]

There are five founding members of the Disparate Alliance, the Batini, the Bata'a, the Ngoma, the Hollow Ones and the Solificati. Everyone else joined afterwards.

I wasn't referring to the Solificati for potential groups to fill the vacant seat, I was referring to them not being a playable option while the rest of the other Alliance Founders are playable in VAM. In fact, they and the Templars are the only M20 Crafts not in VAM.

The Sisters of Hippolyta are in VAM, in the Wardens of a World of Magick section of the Craft Chapter....

[AkatsukiLeader13]

Well the OoR chapter did mention the Void Seekers encountering two Central African confederations of Willworkers with Beliefs not entirely incompatible with the Order's, the Awalaye and Wamukamwami. Unfortunately the rest of the Order learned this after the Seekers attacked and pillaged several of these African Technomancers' chantries, preventing any future talks with them.

Frankly with how big Africa is, it's one of those things that would at the bare minimum require an entire Chapter in a supplement if not an entire book dedicated to it. The three purely African Crafts we got...

[AkatsukiLeader13]

That is certainly the stance M20 favors. The Nephandi are the Big Bad that the Traditions and Conventions have forgotten about in their own feud with each other.

And it's certainly less frustrating than WoW has become.



Yeah in MtAs, Belief is EVERYTHING. We can say that Tradition/Technocracy Conflict is in the end pointless because we are privy to knowledge that very, very few Mages ever discover and does that do are seldom in a position to share that knowledge....