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[Dataweaver]

I don't think we're disagreeing all that much. We're both agreeing that it happened first in Europe, and happened elsewhere at some time after contact with europe.

[Dataweaver]

My main point is that the shattering ought to be something that's has a single starting point. The notion that every changelings society in the world independently triggered their own separate Shatterings stretches credulity.

I personally don't really care who started it. Just that it started in one place. It's been established to have started in europe, but if you want to retcon that to the Middle Kingdom, or australia, or wherever, I wouldn't mind.

[Dataweaver]

Heaven forbid that Europe manages to do something that has a global impact.

Let me rephrase: heaven forbid that Europe manages to screw everything up for everyone....

[Dataweaver]

I'd agree with the Shattering notion if it was a localized phenomenon. But from what I gather, it was global — which means that changelings outside of Europe (such as North America and the Middle Kingdom) got hammered by something they never saw coming.

[Dataweaver]

You might want to check out the (entirely unofficial) Sei.

[Dataweaver]

My way of connecting the two is by saying that Czar Vargo (an Etherite who “almost won the Ascension War single-handedly” in the early 20th century with a massive public display of Science) was more successful in an alternate timeline where he was responsible for the Hammersmith Event. That is: the Adventure era, and by extension the entire Trinity Continuum, is an example of what you might get if the Etherite worldview took center stage.

In this hybrid setting, though, the Telluric Energies still stand apart from Prime: while Vargo was responsible for the massive realignment...

[Dataweaver]

Well, I'm hoping that when they tackle this in more depth, they address better such as this. If I want to play something that would commonly be considered a witch, I'd like to know what the appropriate setup would be in the game. And yes, I realize that a generic “witch” is unlikely to make it in. But I wouldn't want that, anyway. I'd rather see some culturally appropriate examples of what inspired the notion of the witch. For instance.

[Dataweaver]

As I understand it, a Marvel is the result of channeling the mythological construct known in the game as a Pantheon through a Motif. That is, the Marvel is the result, not the source.

Thus, my question about what would power a Motif that isn't tied to one of three Pantheons; and whether or not you can't have alternate Motifs for a Pantheon..

[Dataweaver]

Next question: can such things have their own Motifs? If so, where does the Motif get its power?

[Dataweaver]

I think part of the issue is the piling on; but I could be wrong. I'm also pretty sure that a bigger part of the issue is furthering the thread derailment: as I see it, this thread is about the idea of bringing magical traditions that don't necessarily align with specific Pantheons or drive their powers from the gods into Scion. Posts that do nothing other than call out cultural appropriation (or anything else that's not the above) derails the thread. Including this post, so far.

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In an attempt to bring this back on topic, I'd like to try building a list of magical traditions...

[Dataweaver]

I really wish they'd put Feats more front and center in Mage. “They're more powerful” shouldn't generally be a justification for requiring more dots; it should, rather, require more successes.

Rather than talking about “a Spirit 3 Effect to summon spirits, and a Spirit 4 Effect to summon angels and demons”, we should be talking about “a Standard Spirit 3 Effect to summon spirits, and a Difficult Spirit 3 Effect to summon angels and demons”, or something to that effect.

[Dataweaver]

Can't… wait…

[Dataweaver]

Not “rank 5”; “number 5” — as in, the fifth thing @NewK asked for: the general-purpose Promethean Chamber. I've said nothing about ranks.

[Dataweaver]

2 isn't Q-Tech; it's Nova Tech at most. @NewK specified baseline-usable. 3 probably isn't Q-Tech either, as “hardtech” also implies baseline-usable. (If he had said “biotech”, I would have said that that's impossible since Novas can't make biotech; but they could make something that's equivalent save only for being Quantum-powered rather than Psi-powered, and that would count as Q-Tech.)

As you say, 5 is Handwavium: you're basically describing a Prometheus Chamber, but without any restrictions on how the power manifests. Even in the Æon era, nobody knows how to make one of...

[Dataweaver]

I'm not sure how much I'd trust the statistics from W20; the average Willpower of a regular human, according to those numbers, is 3.965, or 4. That seems awfully high to me, and doesn't match the description of Willpower 2 being typical. (For those of you familiar with statistics terminology, 2 is the Mode of that distribution, but not the Mean.)

But even if we take that distribution as being accurate for regular folks, mages aren't regular folks; conceptually, they're fundamentally willful people: it's generally taken as a given that the essence of Magick is Enlightened Will; and...

[Dataweaver]

Who would hold her accountable? If she uses Coincidental Magick to reveal her clients' secrets, the mundane political system won't even know what happened. If her Cabal agrees with her decision, they won't stand in her way; and if they don't agree, then she's not upholding her duty to her Cabal.

That leaves only the possibility that the politician she's seeking to uncover has the backing of some other Awakened faction, such as the Technocracy or the Nephandi. In which case, the consequences would be the opposing faction seeking revenge.

There's one other consideration:...

[Dataweaver]

The Entropy Sphere defines Effects that are called Blessings and Curses; that is, the end result of the casting. I don't have my book handy; but I think the mechanic is something along the lines of some sort of difficulty adjustment to appropriate dice pools (lowering the difficulty with a blessing, raising it with a curse).

The Focus rules define an Instrument called “Blessings and Curses”, which is all about the actions traditionally associated with blessing or cursing someone. It does not have anything to do with what the blessing or curse does.

You can pair...

[Dataweaver]

There was a Mage book that pointed out that Adventure! looks an awful lot like “the Sons of Ether won the Ascension War”. (In fact, if you wanted to run a hybrid Mage/Adventure chronicle, I'd replace Hammersmith with Czar Vargo as the one responsible for the Hammersmith Event, instead of the “flotilla of airships” stunt he tried in Mage history, and go from there.) I'd expand this notion to the entire Trinity Continuum, not just the Adventure era: all of it is basically a manifestation of reality as the Etherites view it.

Which means that the “scientific mystic” ought to have...

[Dataweaver]

The closest thing to mechanics for Rotes in M20 is the “Knowing and Learning Rotes” section on p.529: as an option, learning a Rote is done using Intelligence+Esoterica or Science (or, in some cases, Research) with a difficulty of 5+highest Sphere. No experience cost, and the time required is left entirely up to the Storyteller.

M20 defines Fast-Casting on p.535: “a desperate or reckless mage might try fast-casting her effect — that is, making stuff up and firing it off without preparation of practice”.

Basically, M20 assumes that the default is that mages are rote-casting,...

[Dataweaver]

You mean VARGs?

(Sadly, giant robots seem to have hit a dry spell in today's anime. It's a shame, though I understand why it's happening.)

Also, one thing I love about TC's Super-science rules is that it allows for what I call Rubber Science: technology that's not based off of any exotic principles; it's just better than it has any right to be. Rocketeer-style jet packs, for instance, don't make sense: there's no way you could carry enough fuel to keep it flying for as long as the Rocketeer manages to fly. Or VARGs: giant robots really don't make any sense from am engineering...