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  • Lasombra
    replied to Mind magic and frenzy
    sorry for maybe going OT (or maybe going back on topic on the main issue regarding the beginning of the post)
    and i usually don't want to bother the gameline creators since i guess u guys always receive messages and get asked questions all the time…

    But how would you personally rule the clash between dominate/ mind magic control / and frenzy/rage/basu im? In your opinion, does werewolf rage/ vampire frenzy beast “override” psychic domination commands, or will the mind influence still works on a blood driven undead/shapeshifter?

    I’m asking that...
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  • Thank you very appreciated!! Ps_ I too would like entire books for each single chapter...
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  • Lasombra
    replied to Mind magic and frenzy
    I was being a little bit philosophically nerd for the sake of debate and for fun, but yeah I still stand for a very simple and elegant clash of wills ...
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  • Lasombra
    replied to Mind magic and frenzy
    I agree partially with you, and see what you mean. But it is not totally true that the concept of thought isn't available to an uratha in rage, otherwise it wouldn't be possible to influence or manipulate a raging uratha , and thus the paragraph where they wrote about the penalty for commanding a raging uratha wouldn't need to exist,
    Rage and the impulse of killing everything and everyone is a thought and an impulse, even if primordial and difficult to manipulate. (i quote from the book:
    any attempts to influence, intimidate, or otherwise change the
    Uratha’s course of...
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  • Lasombra
    replied to Mind magic and frenzy
    I would be totally 100 per cent with you on this, IF we were talking about dominate.

    The problem with mind magic and with magic in general is that you completely rewrite the associated element of reality to suit your needs.

    When a mage issue a command with mind magic he doesn't simply says a command to you, he rewrites your mind so that you obey him effectively controlling your mind directly and gaining complete control over your concept of mind and thought.

    Language and understandable words or commands do not apply in my opinion to mind magic, since...
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  • Lasombra
    replied to Mind magic and frenzy
    I agree that a werewolf in full basu Im who stands still while getting shot at doesn't make sense that's why even if there is no mention I would allow for a clash of wills at least as St.

    Problem is that raw there is nothing stopping a mind mage from mind enslaving frenzy vampires and kuruth werewolves.

    Maybe the core of the debate and that should redifine the problem is "does mind totally override both the conscious and unconscious mind (and the beast and rage too), and do the frenzy beast and basu im processes involve chemical brain, conscious or unconscious thoughts,...
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  • Lasombra
    replied to Mind magic and frenzy
    I'll try to be more specific.
    Let's say that I'm a desperate mastigos confronted by a werewolf and cornered. I use mind magic to dominate him with psychic domination and spend extra reach for size and type of command and i tell him to "freeze don't move no matter what".
    An Elodoth see the mage working his curse and his companion mind blocked, so he uses his powers to cause him to rage hoping to free him from the spell.

    Another case, the werewolf simply remains frozen in place under the spell command, the wizard calmly pulls out a silver bullet loaded gun and...
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  • Lasombra
    replied to Mind magic and frenzy
    First off thank you all for ur replies, and from now on I will consider scale factors also for mind and abstract arcana. Second, I wanted to ask u about werewolf rage specifically.
    It is stated in the werewolf rules for rage that "
    any attempts to influence, intimidate, or otherwise change the
    Uratha’s course of action by mundane or supernatural means suffer
    twice the werewolf’s Primal Urge as a penalty. This is over and above
    any Supernatural Tolerance (p. 160) applied to supernatural powers"

    So I guess that a vampire or a mind mage...
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  • Lasombra
    replied to Mind magic and frenzy
    Wow I honestly never thought about that do size factors matter even with an abstract concept like mind? I thought size factor was meant for "real" and solid things like matter corpses and living beings, or spirits and ghosts...
    Maybe the werewolf thoughts and mind become.. Bigger?
    Anyway Raw u might be right I need to re read that paragraph...
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  • Lasombra
    started a topic Mind magic and frenzy

    Mind magic and frenzy

    Since I can't find anywhere a reference to solve or clarify this: when a mage with mind magic (but the same could be applied to a vampire with dominate or presence) gives a command to a subject, if the victim suffers from frenzy, Kuruth, rage or basu im..etc..etc.. Does this "override" the mind control and set them free, or do they still have to obey the mind master since the duration of the spell/command is extended/one scene?

    For example, if I use mind magic and command a gangrel to stop and stand still, if by any chance he goes into frenzy Will he break free from...
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  • Lasombra
    replied to Pure Breed Problem
    played werewolf the apocalypse for years now, and never had a problem with pure breed. Honestly, it's one of the least favourite backgrounds among my players, they rather have rage 8 fang daggers and high gnosis to just frenzy and kill any high noble prince with pure breed that wants to tell them what to do.

    Seriously though i don't see why the background should be so problematic... Remember that even pure breed has his limits and renown and roleplay beat pure breed.
    Ok, u might be good at social skills and dices but you are surrounded by ready to kill insta warform monster...
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Lasombra
Lasombra
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