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  • The Caul is a super-cool wild continent infused with ancient Primordial energies, recovered from the Wyld, and controlled by Lunars . Surely there's room for Solar, Abyssal, even Lunar sacred places and rituals of power that aren't the Dragon-Blooded pilgrimage route? Jerusalem has many holy places to Jews, Christians, and Muslims; some are only sacred to one of the traditions, some are sacred to multiple groups owing to shared heritage, and some are holy to more than one group but for different *reasons*.
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  • Does it? I don't think I agree. Delay lets you act on a later tick but it doesn't say anything about giving you any more information than anyone 'naturally' acting on that tick have about who is going to do what. I would say that it's somewhat reasonable for the delayer to know who else is acting in the tick (as in Kelly Pedersen's example, they opt in last) before deciding if they want to act; delaying an action is not itself described as an action so clearly it has to exist outside the "turn" proper. But once people start deciding what they are doing, that feels too late to opt in....
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    Last edited by Blackwell; 01-04-2021, 03:09 PM.

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  • First off, thank you so much for your help thinking this through. Sorry if it seems like I'm talking past you but your post gave me a new perspective so I'm kinda coming from there more than responding directly.

    So the thing I'd focus on from the simultaneous action sidebar's example isn't that they're allies, it's that both characters still get to take their intended action as planned. There's no question about invalidating or changing actions, as you say the only thing being rolled for is who gets the Initiative Break bonus. This may be a logical leap, but I'd infer that the spirit...
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    Last edited by Blackwell; 01-04-2021, 01:35 PM.

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  • Likewise, I think one or more mentions implied a "big reveal" that Juggernaught isn't the corpse of a dead behemoth that the Mask animated like a zombie, but rather the gravely wounded, but slowly regenerating body of a *living* behemoth that Mask uses Necromancy to keep at the city-sized-giant-equivalent of Incapacitated so that a legion of nemessaries can possess the necrotizing muscles and coordinate its movements. I.e., the ghosts make it crawl, the Mask's "unfathomable necromancy" is what keeps it from standing up.

    Or that could be headcanon I accidentally...
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    Last edited by Blackwell; 01-04-2021, 03:38 AM.

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  • And under no circumstances would I suggest you do anything else at your table!

    The way I see it is this. Understanding the letter of the law, as you call it, serves two purposes and the first is the Golden Rule itself. The "executive override" rules are in reference to the other rules; that's what they override! Invoking the Golden Rule is saying "I know the rules and I chose to change them because it was better for my group this way." It covers deliberate choices. Doing something fun without knowing that the rules say something different is also totally cool...
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  • That's actually where the whole thing started; I was trying to figure out the precise mechanism by which a delay could force a Clash attack. Clearly the intent is that they can... but they can't really because you can't force someone to attack you. So down the rabbit hole we go....
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  • I don't think this jives, because it does really weird things relative to folks who are acting normally on their turn. They don't get to know what everyone else is doing before deciding whether or not to delay. I think this would make sense to me if the delayer could also same tick they delayed if they wanted to (after everyone else declares their actions), and that's explicitly not the case....
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  • Generally no, but I could to some degree it will depend on just how much you suck at Clashes, and how bad Crash is for you strategically. If you're a Dodge-focused "support" style character with little weapon skill, Clash might be really bad for you, but Crash not so terrible (you're probably leaving the decisives to your allies anyway). Of course, the attacker still probably gets 5i for provoking your Crash and nets +3i on the whole thing, so...


    I don't see it as a house rule, more like the only sensible limit to the "waiting game" function, as intransigence...
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    Last edited by Blackwell; 01-04-2021, 08:19 AM.

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  • This is a good thing to keep in mind. I was trying to use the simultaneous action piece mostly in an attempt to triangulate the authorial intent on declaration, but you're right that they are not the same thing. At the end of the day I think the rules are conspicuously silent on how normal actions get declared; I say conspicuous because Charm usage is very specific (page 251; "Players must openly declare which Charms their characters are using, and all Charms (unless their text indicates otherwise) must be declared, and their costs spent, before any dice are rolled. Attackers declare their...
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  • Juggernaut has been around since 1e, and has accumulated quite a bit of lore.

    Yes, Juggernaut is humanoid. It can't walk or stand upright, instead dragging itself along on its belly with its arms (leaving it's back free to support the Mask's fortress).
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  • Agreed, this seems like the most consistent answer. Like I said before, the exact wording is ambiguous, butt to me, "deployed" is more consistent with an indefinite delay than a predefined one.



    You put your (heavy?) finger on it. Exalted has always had the soul of a Storyteller game but the beating heart of a CCG (or more accurately an LCG, I guess). And who declares what when is the most important part of basically every card game's rules. This creates a cake-and-eat-it-too problem for 3e, which doesn't want to be super gamey, but also wants to leverage the...
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    Last edited by Blackwell; 01-02-2021, 09:52 PM.

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  • This is kind of the direction I'm leaning as well. It seems internally consistent with all the rules, just with some right-of-way laid over the top (which the book hardly addresses at all, so it seems safe to assume a categorical omission).

    Follow up question:

    How does this interact with the simultaneous actions sidebar? Do you wait for everyone to declare what they are doing and then check for sequencing issues (to be resolved through discussion or coin flip)? Or does that happen for the normally-acting folks before the delayers decide what they're doing?...
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  • Interesting! So on the one hand, I like this because it yields a very straightforward general-case rule for Clashes. You could just say something like: "During any tick less than or equal to their initiative, if a character who has not yet acted is attacked, they may immediately use their turn to counterattack, triggering a Clash."

    A duelist character who is delaying in the hopes of getting a Clash can see who attacks them before declaring an attack, and in the case of "natural" simultaneous actions, the same rule says a character can safely declare they're doing...
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  • I think this is a perfectly sensible house rule, but it's at odds with the description of Delaying Actions:
    A character may delay his turn, waiting until a point later than his initiative to act. The delayed action may be deployed on any tick later in the round that the player wishes.

    So I think a legalistic read would support pre-specifying the tick you're waiting for (In our example, "I delay until tick 6"), *or* a wait-and-see approach where the character can stop the delay whenever they like, but I'm not able to parse it in a way that says you declare a trigger...
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  • A simple, valid, but unlikely alternative: "Advanced Troubleshooting; Changing Initiative and Simultaneous Action" gets invoked way earlier, during step 3, *before* going to Clash. A and B have a chance to defer priority to the other's attack or ask for a coin flip, avoiding the Clash entirely. In this world the Clash only happens if both agree to it, otherwise the attacks get resolved serially.

    Pretty sure this is not authorial intent, but it does prevent a lot of the trickier scenarios at the expense of making it very difficult to force a Clash.
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  • Delay, Simultaneity, and Clash (from: Exalted Arena)

    So how does this work, exactly? I mean in principle it makes sense, but when exactly does the delaying character declare that they are acting?

    Let's say A has an initiative of 9 and B has an initiative of 6. On tick 9, A has a chance to act, but spends 2i (now at 7) and delays. Then tick 6 comes around. I'm assuming it goes something like this, but please correct me if I'm wrong:
    1. As tick 5 ends and tick 6 starts, A declares she is acting this tick.
    2. A and B both decide their action choice in secret, because either might change their choice dependent on what the other does.
    3. Both
    ...
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    Last edited by Blackwell; 01-02-2021, 01:06 PM.

  • Blackwell
    replied to Exalted Reincarnated
    I wish you luck on your project. I see some very cool ideas in here. I think you're headed a bit more Fate-like then I prefer; I do really like Fate but I like Exalted for different reasons. That said, I may be rushing to judgement too quickly so I'll try to keep an eye on it!

    I've been working on something tangentially related; my thesis (in counterpoint to this and Essence) is something like "3e isn't overcomplicated, just overwritten". So starting with combat, I'm attempting to rewrite the rules without changing any. You could think of it as a quick reference, a combat...
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  • Blackwell
    replied to More Like Cynis Denovah AvaCOOL!
    Anything in particular you liked about him? I mostly just remember him as the Fire Aspect whose killing of a young Eclipse Caste (and subsequent regret) while on a Wyld Hunt was a throughline for many 1e and 2e fictions....
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  • Blackwell
    replied to Why doesn’t Exalted have a metaplot?
    So I'm of two minds about metaplot.

    In practical terms, I think what metaplot does is present multiple, optional versions of the setting. Storytellers always get to choose how to blend them, so it's all more grist for the mill.

    Say there is a metaplot point wherein Gem blows up. If an ST thought Gem was interesting the way it was and wants to use it in a game, it just didn't blow up. If they think the plot elements around it's destruction were cool and wants to use them, Gem hasn't blown up *yet* but probably will when the PCs are around. If the ST likes the aftermath...
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    Last edited by Blackwell; 12-27-2020, 08:54 AM.

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  • Blackwell
    replied to Why doesn’t Exalted have a metaplot?
    I agree with everything you said, but just a tiny bit of additional context for this one: RotSE was, as made pretty clearly from it's afterword, at time of writing expected to be the last Exalted book. Which is doubly noteworthy as the "only" metaplot book; it's like the final resolution of any "will they/won't they" plot arc for long time series fans....
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Blackwell
Blackwell
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