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  • loomer
    replied to Modern RPG Safety and Wraith20
    And can you show that the formulations suggested by advocates in this thread are susceptible to the same problem? And, more importantly, that they are more susceptible to this than the use of other tools and that such a possibility's potential harm outweighs the potential good of the concept?...
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  • loomer
    replied to Modern RPG Safety and Wraith20
    You continue to advance a theory that this is in some way part of a slippery slope. That undercuts your stance of 'no the tool is good but careful' into a backdoor attack, and you know it. If you can't actually show that this situation is more analogous to the perceived political correctness crisis of college campuses than it is to BDSM safewords, then maybe stop drawing those connections and arguing them in a public forum where people are entitled to ask you to back up and defend your arguments.

    Basically, put up or shut up, and either demonstrate your slippery slope is not fallacious...
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  • loomer
    replied to Modern RPG Safety and Wraith20
    I believe we are in agreement on these basic points.



    I believe we are still in agreement, and it is the poor design of the original concept that I spent quite some time remedying upthread. Most usage scenarios address only one possible use while trying to map the concept to a very broad range of possibilities, with the result being a mismatch for the context of Wraith. That does not mean the card concept does not have merit - it just needs to be tailored to the context, just like most everything else.



    Unfortunately so. Personally, I feel that...
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  • loomer
    replied to Modern RPG Safety and Wraith20
    Again, show the situation is actually analogous and that the comparison to a situation where the concepts are abused and misrepresented - something that more words clarifying intent can help remedy, in direct counter to your 'a tiny sidebar is fine' mentality - is more apt than the closer analogy of BDSM community safewords....
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  • loomer
    replied to Modern RPG Safety and Wraith20
    Prove it. Show the projected slope, show the underlying logic and rationale, show that the situation is comparable to USA campuses as opposed to say, the BDSM scene where coded safewords and degrees of progression are a long-accepted standard.



    We already sacrifice pages upon pages for ST advice in core books. This is no different in that regard to content that is already present.




    You assume, erroneously, that these tools are intended to in some way abrogate the responsibility of players and groups to choose content that is appropriate....
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  • loomer
    replied to Modern RPG Safety and Wraith20
    In this situation, it's more analogous to suggesting driver safety training as part of the learning permit process, or perhaps even just mandating that the regular lap-and-shoulder belt be made mandatory and not optional. It's also great that you don't think you need it - you very well may not. These tools are not necessarily going to be of use for every group in every session any more than any other ST tool is. I myself don't need to be told about Rule Zero in most books, but I'm sure some DM somewhere has never thought about it before he cracks open a book containing it....
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  • loomer
    replied to Modern RPG Safety and Wraith20
    That's because most sources, quite frankly, use the x-card wrong and fail to address the entire range of uses. It's basic use is as an indicator that 'yo, hold up, I need to take a moment', and most sources leave it there. That's because in some cases, it may not be a possibility for there to be a discussion about why a halt needed to be called due to the private nature of trauma, but treating it as a universal 'BAN THIS' indicator is misusing it in the same way people have misused trigger warnings.

    Here are the ideal scenarios.
    1. Something occurs and an x-card is dropped,...
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  • loomer
    replied to Modern RPG Safety and Wraith20
    See, you say I'm arguing with nobody, and then you type out a rant that shows exactly the same nonsense I was just arguing against. There is no slippery slope towards sanitization. The inclusion of safety tools is in fact more likely to shore up the slope and keep it from a landslide, just like planting trees on an actual hill. No one is trying to castrate the setting. No one is talking about pages upon pages of safety mechanics, though to be blunt Wraith would be one of the games where they would be most appropriate. The thought process is not, as you have identified, 'we don't want traumatic...
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  • loomer
    replied to Modern RPG Safety and Wraith20
    Surprisingly, I am an enormous fan of the 'edgy' WoD, as you'd put it. This isn't an attempt to cut that down - it's an attempt to provide tools to make it easier to explore with a broader audience. Also, why on earth are we now debating the use of an X card during a basic description of death sight? It has zero relationship to what those of us advocating for the use of the tools are talking about, just like the random rant upthread about feminism didn't.

    Just to reiterate: Suggesting these tools be in place is not an attempt to 'cut down' on the 'edge'. It is not a suggestion that...
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  • loomer
    replied to Modern RPG Safety and Wraith20
    No one is saying that. We are, however, suggesting that the door should not be slammed shut in people's faces and there is in fact a middle ground between 'in' and 'out'.


    Again, no one is saying that. The reason why tools like a red card are useful is because traumas are often unknown to other people (often even very intimate friends, even long-term romanticpartners) because they can be exceptionally personal and, quite frankly, not the business of everyone present at the table. This is especially the case where you have new groups or groups trying a new genre involving these...
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  • She's mentioned in the V20 companion, the 2015 Redlist, Caerns: Places of Power (only very briefly), A World of Darkness (2nd edition), the revised Gangrel Clanbook, and the Encyclopedia Vampirica. Only AWoD and the Redlist are really worth digging up.
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  • loomer
    replied to Modern RPG Safety and Wraith20
    There is a difference between recognizing the potential for psychological distress that certain themes can create for people with past situations dealing with them and taking the appropriate steps to ensure that a game that deals with those themes - a recreational past time, usually not a professional therapy session - has tools and mechanisms in place. Those tools and mechanisms won't be needed for every group, and their existence does not mean you need to use them or that they will be used at the drop of a hat. When a game very specifically and primarily deals with confronting traumas, past...
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loomer
loomer
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Last Activity: 11-03-2017, 01:28 AM
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