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  • Heavy Arms
    replied to KoE 20?
    First on the "why are these other groups in the other X20 lines" thing: That's simple. Because those other groups aren't entirely different supernaturals from the core game. Asian Garou/Fera, and Asian mages have a few (often optional) differences from their Western groups. C20 and likely Wr20 will have more significant mechanical differences (as was reflected in previous editions) but those variations are likewise built into those games (C20 has to address the differences between the default European Kithain, and the various Gallain and etc., so including the Hsein is more like...
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  • Just as a side note, because I don't think getting into it is the point of the thread:

    "Vampires are a rape metaphor," is mostly a simplification of a much more complicated literary history of vampires and the violation of sexual taboos in Gothic (and Gothic inspired) literature. Part of this process was - at least in Western culture - a lot of the sexual taboos that vampires were originally used to explore in that context aren't really that taboo (either not really taboo at all, or not so taboo that they need to be addressed in metaphor to be approached in popular fiction)...
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  • The point is to escape reality with a purpose. Specifically to reach emotional catharsis by fictionalizing real world problems in the forms of monsters to make exploring them more emotionally safe.

    I can't speak for everyone else, but this is true for me, and something I see a lot in general. We don't want to play monsters just to play evil things for power fantasy of being evil. We want to play monsters because there's an emotional pay off to exploring the darker aspects of our reality.

    I mean, you say you want to take on the role of a monster, by why do you find...
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  • Heavy Arms
    replied to Sell me on this game
    The core aspect of Mage (going well back to the WoD) is that mages are nearly godlike in their potential power, but they're still humans in terms of their minds. It's all about exploring the hubris of such limited beings having such vast power at their disposal. Part of the dilemma with this as a game, is that it is much more individualistic. "What do you do with cosmic power" doesn't lend itself to the more direct themes of many of the other game-lines.

    As noted above, Mage 2e seeks to address this by focusing on the addictive nature of power. Mages are addicts, they're...
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  • Heavy Arms
    replied to Sealing off the Umbra
    Even if you directly translate the Avatar Storm to WtA with something to make it threatening to Garou (the current roll for damage from the Avatar storm for them would be zero dice).

    As well, it really isn't that big of a deal because the Garou are already far more obsessed with their Caerns than mages are with Nodes. The Caern of any decently sized Sept is already an easy access to the Umbra around the Avatar Storm (Shallowings ignore the Avatar Storm completely, and are a common feature in Caerns but rare in Nodes, and any Caern without one could temporarily have one via Rites...
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  • And, really, at this point, "Honesty, not uncivility." seems entirely strained (or at least one sided). This isn't honesty, because it's not just talking about your own perceptions honestly. It's actively putting down how others honestly view the game.

    Too much of your counter points in this come down to how much you feel the book focuses on a topic more than what the book says or how much focus it gets in an quasi-objective way. The book doesn't need to repeat a line a dozen times for that line to be the stance of the book, or the context to judge further lines in the...
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  • Heavy Arms
    replied to No Metis anymore
    Well... I'd imagine for most Garou in the Garou Nation, the biggest issue is actually the social upheaval as one of the Tenets of the Litany is now in serious question. But this would depend a bit on how this happens from the perspective of characters in-universe. If Gaia or Luna makes it clear that Garou on Garou mating is cool now, it's a very different issue than if it just suddenly happens and there's no reason to alter the Litany (meaning it would still be completely taboo culturally even if the child doesn't have the same issues as they would have before); esp. with the Perfect Metis legend....
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  • Heavy Arms
    replied to Sealing off the Umbra
    Um... not like the Avatar Storm. It would be magnitudes more disruptive to the game than the Avatar Storm was, and just messes up way too much. Also, the Avatar Storm didn't "seal" off the Umbra, it made it more dangerous to access, and made sources of safe access more valuable. The Avatar Storm with WtA also doesn't have the impact of trying to cut off the younger (PC) mages from the older leadership hiding in the Umbra to avoid Paradox. The Elders of the Garou Nation still live on Earth and can be readily accessed without the Umbra.

    I've certainly dealt with such things...
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  • So... tangent on Mage having played out fairly thoroughly, maybe getting back to the V5 playtest discussion?

    I'm not sure I have anything to add (I've said a ton on the other threads and other people have said my feelings here thoroughly enough), but if we want to revisit the Mage editions wars... there's a Mage forum.
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  • Player agency isn't the "ultimate goal of game design." It is an inescable aspect of player fun. Agency is a fundamental part of how humans enjoy entertainment. Obviously it plays out differently in different media, but we even see this in non-interactive entertainment (for example, a great thing to hear as feedback for non-interactive entertainment is a desire from the audience for self-insertion; that they are thinking about what they would do if they were in that or how they'd want to explore more of the universe you've created). For interactive media, agency is absolutely vital....
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  • Heavy Arms
    replied to I have a Secret…
    I wouldn't say I like Saytros' editorial writing style, but it doesn't bother me too much either. I think he's one of the few people that is really good at capturing what Mage is supposed to be about, and can bridge the different edition's variations very well. So firing him or limiting him would be a huge mistake in my mind.

    The most I would think could be good for the game is someone a bit more focused on the "making sure this is valuable to people in play, and isn't redundant" was working with him to balance out the creative team.
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  • This isn't the main point of the metaphor I'm highlighting.

    Where this comes in, and Beast is fairly direct about stating, is that Beasts have the capacity to recognize their place in the monomyth as the monster the hero is out to slay, and that they can reject it. Beasts easily come to the realization that they don't want to die just for being what they are. They want to say they don't deserve to die just for being what they are. But they have to then struggle with whether or not the being they choose to become is one that doesn't deserve to die anyway. Which is why Beasts seek...
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  • I like Beast for a few reasons:

    1) The whole "Betrayal" of the themes of the CofD is one of the best aspects of the game. Beast separates itself (like Promethean, Hunter, and Geist as well) by pushing back as the "monster I am lest monster I become" approach to the moral grays of the setting. Challenging players to look at the morals of their character's actions through a much different approach is a healthy thing for both the diversity of play experiences the CofD can provide, as well as giving us new ways to view the moral struggles the games address. I'd...
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  • "Roll or the GM picks," is to me at least, pretty backwards game design. Going back to the whole "make things more 21st century gaming" concept means trusting players to engage honestly with the system instead of defaulting to GM authority. Sitting back and letting the GM drive has a pretty small limit on being fun.
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  • I'm not seeing the joke.



    OK.. and I didn't actually do that so... how about cutting out the obnoxious rhetoric and saving it for people that are actually being stupid with other people's cultures?



    Sure. But that's not really the point. The point is a cultural take on how fans interact with the canon of an intellectual property. It's a highly generalized point looking at broad trends. Getting super nitpicky about it just comes off as looking for a fight because suggesting Japan might be doing something right apparently offends you considerably....
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  • Erm, Rich didn't say anything of the sort. I mean, he didn't say the opposite either, he just corrected me about the origins of the larger Trinity Universe's behind the scene's origins.

    While OPP hasn't been on the "release the SRD" trend, they've always been encouraging of us taking the mechanics and doing homebrew with them. I can't remember or find anything stating yea or nay on it, but I wouldn't hold my breathe for a stripped down version of the core mechanics. I would though, be prepared to take the new 2e Storypath cores for Scion and Trinity, and mine them for...
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  • Heavy Arms
    replied to I have a Secret…
    Gods, Monsters, and other Familiar Strangers is the only announced book that makes any sense to expand on them via sample characters. Otherwise it would have to be in some not yet announced M20 version of the Book of Crafts which would further delve into the Disparate Alliance like the new Technocracy book is going to.
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  • Heavy Arms
    replied to Primal Urge
    I think it depends a lot on how you or your ST handles the divide between Primal Urge and Survival for 'mundane' rolls; because there's a lot to be had there. As Black Fox
    noted, there's plenty of examples of using Primal Urge in the W20 core book either as an option between it and Survival, or based on your current form. There's even an option for replacing Alertness with Primal Urge in certain circumstances.

    Another point to note though, is that Primal Urge is supposed to also be a weak version of the Awareness Talent that can pick up very simple cues that something supernatural...
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  • I'm most certainly not.

    I think being forced to play being a solo werewolf for the whole game would feel decidedly not WtA. The whole "pick your faction" that's essential to vampire politics is silly in Garou politics where the games heavily encourage PCs to be unification oriented characters in the divided Nation.

    So no pack, vampire politics instead of werewolf ones, and then the whole Umbra aspect of things to address? Yeah. I don't think VtMB with a furry reskin would be a good path to take. VtMB is a fun game, but it works because it's a decent FPS/cRPG...
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  • Sometimes. But even if you take some of the really long ones which one cohesive continuity, like One Piece (almost 800 episodes), you have things like the anime movies (13 theatrical ones, plus a few OVA specials and the like) which... just don't work in the continuity of the standard anime series and are still quite popular..



    That's sort of the point though. Western pop culture tends to treat things as either you do big single continuities (even if you end up doing more than one like comics) or anthologies of lots of small things. But there are other options. You...
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Heavy Arms
Heavy Arms
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Last Activity: Today, 06:57 PM
Joined: 11-04-2013
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