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  • But there's a reason why V20 talks about violations and killing over more specific terms like murder. Taking a life is the core idea here, not what the human legal penalty would be....
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  • That they're semi-conscious during things, especially if you keep them in torpor past their normal torpor duration. While generally only applies to 6+ powers, multiple Disciplines can be used in torpor. So it's not like they're laying there "off" like a machine that you've flipped a switch on. Dreaming for decades without any ability to wake up probably isn't good for your mental health.

    There's also something like having them wake up, only to know that they're going to be put back to sleep again, over and over, until they're finally killed or they're left trapped forever...
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  • Um... not stereotyping them helps a lot?

    The Children of Gaia are kind of the toughest, because their Tribebooks have... well just been bad. The important thing to remember is that they are lot close to antifa than hippies, Which is to say they have some overlapping principles and their ideal world might not look that different, but their methods are extremely different. The CoGs are also extremely deft political actors in the Garou Nation. They have a significant interest in trying to guide humans to live better to reduce the power of the Wyrm and Weaver on them, but they also...
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  • Heavy Arms
    replied to Strange family ties
    Yeah, sorry. In Demon, Crypitds are non-human Stigmatics, as opposed to the general term for strange creatures (though I didn't think the CofD used cryptids as a specific category).
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  • Right, so don't insult people, like saying the push back is born from some undeserved sense of entitlement.

    As far as I'm concerned, calling me unjustifiably entitled and calling me an asshole are equally uncivil, because the intent matters to me far more than the word itself, and the intent is to use a mean word to dismiss my opinion.



    Consider your own posts a bit more then.



    Nope. I can run any VtM game I want from V20 without house rules at all, even if it means there are some system warts I'm not the happiest about. I can't...
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  • You could spend a year "researching." It doesn't matter if you consistently only post things that demonstrate you've read what you want to read and don't demonstrate actual attempts to understand what's being written. Thus the difference between, "hearing" and "listening."



    And you chose to inflict this on us, which is on you.

    As well, you don't seem to appreciate the other side of this. How frustrating it is to have to deal with posters that treat V5 as the prefect RPG and shout down all criticism, and so on.

    ...
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  • I think you're selling torpor as a bit... nicer than it is described in the books, and there is plenty of moral dilemma and ethics to consider for when long term incarceration turns into torture.

    But still, vampires are fairly easy to incapacitate if you know what you're doing, making directly lethal tactics questionable morally. The bigger quagmire is how corrupt and unjust vampires tend to be, making what might not be a moral issue for a human (a police officer that arrests someone that could be facing the death penalty has a lot of barriers psychologically, morally, and ethically...
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  • Heavy Arms
    replied to Strange family ties
    Cryptids are still creatures of the GM like stigmatics.

    Though it seems hard to find a cryptid that you couldn't replicate with the Horror rules for something non-GM related for the same effect in a Beast game as long as crossing over with Demon isn't an issue.
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  • Offers and actualizes aren't the same. That's part of the issue. WW says, "hey this is a toolkit to play any way you've played VtM in the past but better," and V5 doesn't do that.



    Predator types aren't exactly a problem for most people. The biggest issue with Predator types isn't the mechanics, but that the rush job of the final appendix meant that you don't get incorporation of things like trying to identify when players are taking an archetype from a protective stance or a "challenge me" stance (see the Polygon preview game thing on one of the...
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  • Damian hit it on the head pretty well. A lot of feedback on the pre-alpha and alpha just seemed to get ignored, so it discouraged participation from those offering constructive criticism, and the last round of public playtesting was cancelled.

    We also saw a lot of two things from WW:

    Being overly defensive about certain things that felt like it was turning into a, "how dare you question our artistic vision!" response. Unfortunately Martin is... not a great online communicator and it made things worse.

    Regular assurances that alpha playtest quirks...
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  • RAW, yeah, even Sabbat are hard on your Humanity if you want to preemptive strike them.

    If you haven't finished character creation, or if your ST is up for some adjusting of your sheet, the Code of Honor Merit can help a lot here (well +2 dice of help anyway) on top of making sure to invest in your Virtues and all.
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  • According to V5 characters only have 0-3 core beliefs that have any weight for them, yes.



    Easily. Rather than forcing me to define a set number of Convictions and link them to specific Touchstones that embody those Convictions for my character, in V20 I'm free to define my character's morals and ethics without having to worry about losing system bonuses for detailing my character's personality is a fashion that doesn't mesh with the rules. I select a Nature, Demeanor, and assign Virtue dots and Willpower in a fashion that I feel supports my character's convictions;...
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  • I believe the problem is that none of this is really a question (and those a source of dramatic conflict) with the V5 RAW. This is the only direction for things to go to keep a narrative coherence, which means you have to go this way. There's isn't a question of what happens when that mortal dies tragically, you will lose your Conviction. None of the hundreds of other humans around that you've helped and can reaffirm your purpose matter. Your personality doesn't matter. There is no choice, nor variation, no alternatives, just your Convictions dying off because specific external human lives...
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  • Heavy Arms
    replied to Strange family ties
    I respect Dave's statement and I know he's working on the BtP books (which there isn't a single person to go to right now AFAIK as "the" Beast developer), but I'd kinda want something like that to either be addressed more... I guess officially... before I take it as how things are supposed to be.
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  • Found it! Old thread about Ten Ox Meditation (well eventually):

    http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/m...ngth-excercise
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  • Heavy Arms
    replied to Strange family ties
    It doesn't have to be friendly. I was trying to be concise, though I realize it came off that way in hindsight. My point is that for a lot of the stranger things out there that aren't explicitly ruled on in the books, there's enough of an opportunity issue as to make it not really something PCs are going to figure out, and might be left to STs for stranger NPCs to deal in.



    Erm, I'm going to have to disagree with the second part:



    That says to me it doesn't work on the example of a Beast staking a kindred without being noticed (at least to set...
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  • Heavy Arms
    replied to Strange family ties
    Nothing in the rules say you can't (Fetches and Shadow spirits are called out as options from non-PC groups)... but there would seem to be some significant in-story hurdles to even trying. You don't just activate a power and put the Family Ties Condition on a target, it's something that has to be a mutual relationship, that comes from time and energy on both sides growing close to each other. Why would a Strix care about a Beast for the bond to form? How would beings like the Gentry or gulmoth spend enough time near the same Beast to form such a relationship? Etc,
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  • Creating a number for mages would probably require setting a bar for the odds of success that are acceptable, since that's going to directly impact how much oomph you can put into the spell. A mage can push themselves into a chance die for a bigger bonus, but has significant risk for doing so.
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  • I forgot about Crimson Spasm... but even with just taking an average, a Primal Urge 10 character could be looking at +8 or 9 from that, on top of the 19 I already posted. That's pretty nasty.
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  • But this is exactly what frustrates some of us. Camilla and I have radically, spectacularly different ideas of what we enjoy in a VtM game... but the previous editions were flexible despite the designers' intentions enough that we could both get the games we wanted out of it with minimal (if any) significant alterations. Despite the designers and some members of the community getting way too One True Way about it (and some of the push back against it getting ugly), it was generally a strength for the game because it made the community larger and more diverse. Hell, as someone that's into personal...
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Heavy Arms
Heavy Arms
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Last Activity: Today, 07:53 PM
Joined: 11-04-2013
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