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  • Um... we already have The Beast Within drawback to Rage that has this basic effect (though it's the your own character's WP, so if you have Rage > WP on your sheet, you can't keep your Rage bottled up to just the narrative issues of the Curse, but it also has direct mechanical impacts). And temporary Rage exceeding permanent Rage counts for this. A normally Rage 3/Willpower 3 character that gains 1 temporary Rage starts to suffer social penalties.



    I would alternatively argue that higher Willpower Cubs are draw to/capable of enduring the stresses of initiation into...
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    Last edited by Heavy Arms; Today, 08:39 AM.

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  • Heavy Arms
    replied to Ranks of proficiency?
    The Order of Hermes is the only Tradition the explicitly does this. The Traditions as a whole are somewhat familiar with the idea because of the foundational role the Hermetics had on defining the group's shared terminology. A lot of the former Hermetic groups used to do this, but tend to drop it to make themselves more distinct from the Order.
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  • Well, rather than having you go search...

    http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/m...ing-advantages

    Though I think it's worth considering the WtA splat advantage rating issue as separate from the Linear Chargen, Quadratic Advancement issue.

    If you go flat costs for everything, but one character starts with 1/1/3 and another starts with 5/5/4, they're still a drastic imbalance....
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  • It always feels like WtA writers frequently assume "+X dice" will be read as, "+X dice when your ST OKs it based on the flavor text of this widget," and forgets that people tend to default to technical parsing of rules text. Subterranean Affinity is a perfect example of this.

    Then again, WtA is one of the few WoD games that seems to understand how much difficulty matters more than dice pool in most cases (though how that gets applied doesn't always make sense to me). +3 dice absolutely pales in comparison to -3 difficulty for anything your character is built...
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  • Eh? Primal Anger is a level 1 Gift that lets you deal 1 agg to yourself for 3 Rage. While less useful for higher Rage characters, it also can go above your permanent Rage rating. Blooding Fury is a rank 3 Gift, and you have to have Rage 4+ before it's actually better (though both is a strong thing to have if there's a good healer in your pack). Considering the comparisons here, I think Blooding Fury is actually underwhelming in the context of Primal Anger existing.



    Yeah, this one feels more off to me. I think it should be something more like decreasing penalties...
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  • Mildly. But what do you expect. Consider that the conversation basically went:

    HA: "Do you really want to consider all the physics of this?"
    SD: "Actually yeah, I want to pay attention to these things."
    HA: "OK, so what's your plan to make it fun to use considering how much stuff that means taking into consideration?"
    SD: "Actually, I want to completely ignore all those details I just said I want to pay attention to."

    Mild irritation seems like a normal response to that, yeah? Don't you get annoyed if you feel...
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    Last edited by Heavy Arms; 01-17-2022, 06:57 PM.

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  • So, your solution is a 10 XP tax to hand-wave away everything? Why even bother in the first place then?

    I would point you over to the Exalted forums for lots of very long threads about how annoying three core editions of a game have been where they setup all these rules, and then you pay a char-gen or XP tax and then get to ignore them to go play world conquering demigods. People that like the details and how it works for playing lower powered characters get frustrated because a bit of XP and all that detail stops mattering. People that want to skip over all that detail hate having...
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  • OK. So you seriously want to go there....

    First things first. How do you plan on making this any sort of fun to use in play? Is anyone going to want to use Celerity if they have to make 3-5 reflexive checks to make sure they don't destroy themselves from the speed? Are they going to want to track a dozen modifiers to different types of actions?

    What's your idea to abstract this enough to be playable?...
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  • Heavy Arms
    replied to Difficulty above 10
    Make Auspex more "magical" and have bonuses to sensory powers be things like "a taste of the blood," or "having an object of extreme sentimental value to the owner."

    I'm not suggesting one bonus and one bonus only, the example was meant to spurn an idea of how to think about difficult reductions based on story potential instead of some sort of mechanical hoop to jump through....
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  • Because you're applying the logic of physics to supernatural powers extremely selectively.

    What about the force on the vampire's leg bones from slamming into the ground hard enough to propel them at 650 mph? Do they go temporarily blind from their eyeballs deforming from such extreme accelerations and speeds? What about penalties to their sense of balance from all the g-forces they're subjected too?

    If you want to make vampire powers obey the laws of physics, then they need to obey the laws of physics, not just the ones you want to apply. If you want Celerity to do...
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  • Heavy Arms
    replied to Difficulty above 10
    I think it's better to be consistent here, but not so much that there's no flexibility:

    1) "This is too difficult, it's an autofail"should always be in the ST's toolkit.

    2) Pick one method for high difficulty rolls you still want to have a chance. Either use the thresholds rules, or just the additional successes needed rules, but stick to that. Having to decide on which every time adds to ST workload and is not intuitive for easy picking. Reducing the player's dice-pools is another option, but at high difficulty, esp. for any powers that require multiple...
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  • This just circles back to:

    1) The books just don't support these as how things "should" be based on how the setting is described.

    2) Changing the Disciplines to suit your tastes is a much bigger balancing act than you seem interested in....
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  • I'm not sure that really counts as minimal tinkering. "Any Attribute with any Ability if it makes sense," doesn't cover changing systems that use a single Attribute in their rules (Feats of Strength, movement speeds), or justify changing a Willpower roll to an Attribute + Attribute roll (which aren't even a thing in the WoD rules, that's a CofD thing).

    Combat also gets completely screwy if you get too loose with Attributes, because instead of synergies (which is ideally how WoD combat already functions), it advantages single Attribute focus. This is already a known issue...
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  • I would check out Requiem 2e for inspiration on what you're doing here. VtR 2e basically did this too.

    It gives all vampires a sensory boost, but rather than being the more generic boost of Heightened Senses, it's more specialized to being nighttime blood parasites: No penalties for operating in partial darkness, reduced penalties for operating in complete darkness, can always sense exposed blood (even spotting dried blood in a carpet as an example), increased awareness of heartbeats and the smell of blood, a bonus to tracking blood they've tasted (doesn't work on vampires), a bonus...
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  • Fair, I'm not sure how I missed your phrasing when I posted that.
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  • It's also very limited since the automatic success rules only generate 1 success. Very few spells are worth casting for a guaranteed 1 success outcome (not none, but not even being able to get 2 successes is very limiting compared to just rolling).
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  • I think you're reading a bit much into that. A master of Time can cast a spell such that if they're ambushed, time rewinds 10 seconds but now they know you're there... making them extremely hard to ambush not because of some passive effect, but just as a "simple" application of their mastery over Time.

    There are things you could call passive effects out there, but most of them come at the 1st dot (Prime and storing more quintessence in your Pattern for example), while any Mastery "passives" I can think of are internally focused to the applications of the Sphere...
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  • Heavy Arms
    replied to Avoid Vampire mind control
    That you clearly don't give a shit about what the books say, while you're trying to lecture me about being too caught up in being a "realist" or "technical stuff," because I'm pointing out that, no, you can't use Life to make yourself so grumpy Presence fails on you.



    You asked where I was getting the three levels of self-transformation and that radical alterations do come with complications from.



    Tell me you've never been around someone undergoing hormone therapy without saying you've never been around someone going through...
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  • Heavy Arms
    replied to Avoid Vampire mind control
    OK, lets just start with citing the books, since it seems like it's been a while since the actual text was referenced rather than alluded to.

    On shapeshifting and it messing with your head:

    M20, page 517:

    Under Life 3 - "Working with his own Pattern, that mage can work substantial alterations on himself, growing gills, claws, armor and so forth. He remains essentially human, but begins to master the definition of “human.”"

    Under Life 4 - "Working with his own Pattern, that mage can transform himself into other life-forms of...
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  • Heavy Arms
    replied to Avoid Vampire mind control
    Your character with Life 3 can't do that.

    You can do that at Life 4, but even then, the game makes it clear that it takes time for a mage to adjust to a new form even at this level of magic.

    If you want to use Time to hang a self-transformation effect, and not want to still end up with penalties for a bunch of turns from suddenly being in a radically different body, you need Life 5 (or a specific Merit).

    Or, in other words, I'm arguing this because even with the extremes of what magic can do, the game says that the Life Sphere struggles with this issue....
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Heavy Arms
Heavy Arms
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Last Activity: Today, 08:39 AM
Joined: 11-04-2013
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