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  • Definitely a big improvement.

    The biggest problem I've had so far is that there's still a lot of 1e stuff that hasn't been covered yet, and there's limits on how much my group is comfortable just homebrewing (esp. things like Entitlements which were changed significantly, and the expanded Lords of Summer Court Contracts).

    I'm hoping the KS funded supplements come out soon and address these sorts of things.
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  • I'm pretty mixed on this.

    Hunters is a decent company, but they're more publishers than designers. They tapped Renegade Game Studio for the design... which makes sense for Hunters to do, but I'm really wondering how this pitch happened.

    Renegade has a lot of really strong designers, but they're not dedicated RPG folks (which can be a positive and a negative). Who's going to be working on it? Why were they picked for it? Is W5 going to end up furthering the narratives of, "this is just one narrow vision of what WtA used to be," or, "this is a decent...
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  • Given how long I've been banging the "Hunger is too much like Paradox" drum, if for different reasons, what does this matter? We know the point wasn't to mimic Paradox. The point is that it does.



    I do wonder if people realize how hypocritical these sorts of statements come off as:

    Basically, people are saying pre-V5 VtM failed because people forgot/ignored/etc. various rules, but V5 works great when you are selective in how you apply the rules.




    Correct.



    Partially correct. They might grant...
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    Last edited by Heavy Arms; Yesterday, 05:38 PM.

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  • Heavy Arms
    replied to The Rules Nuts and Bolts
    The mechanics of what Scale does is the basically the same, and is exactly the same for Dramatic Scale.

    The differences are in, as mentioned, the default assumptions about what grants Scale and what the lines between levels of Scale are. Trinity's more delineated and in a sense grounded in these definitions, because Trinity is dealing with a pulpy sci-fi base ideal. Trinity is, in general, a more granular than Scion for similar reasons. Scion's more flexible because it's meant to feel more mythological.

    In Aberrant, if you were doing something like the Fantastic Four...
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  • Heavy Arms
    replied to The Rules Nuts and Bolts
    They're similar, but not the same. Trinity's Scale starts one higher to deal with some of the shapeshifting stuff turning you small. Aberrant esp. in Trinity (which uses Scale the most so far) is also more specific in the "kinds" of Scale you can have, where Scion is more loose about it.
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  • So:

    Your Ravnos tries to sucker punch a Brujah as a preemptive strike and deals 4 lethal damage... not enough to drop a Brujah so this should hurt.

    The Brujah attacks back and and thanks to Potence, and despite your Fortitude, hits your Ravnos for 5 lethal damage back.

    On getting attacked, you spend 1 vitae and activate Sympathetic Agony, and roll 2 successes.

    Now your Ravnos still has 5 damage, but you calculate your wound penalty at two lower (so from -2 to -1). Your opponent still has 4 damage, but calculates it at two higher (so from -2...
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  • Heavy Arms
    replied to I have no issues with V5!
    Good thing I just said that using projects to directly get XP breaks on Disciplines would be a house rule, and not that projects can't help Disciplines at all.

    We're well beyond the point of this being a pointless tangent. We get it, there's lots of options in the book for ST to toss more XP at the player than the default, and if you want to run the game just right so players are drowning in XP you can.

    However it's just mind-numbing nitpicking on the difference between "ST fiat that's in the rules," and "house rules," regarding the actual impact on...
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    Last edited by Heavy Arms; Yesterday, 12:03 AM.

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  • Heavy Arms
    replied to I have no issues with V5!
    2 - 4 XP a session is, RAW, using an optional rule and regularly finishing multiple stories per session. This might not be a house rule, but it's far enough from most playstyles to really illustrate much for the system. It seems a safe assumption that it's a house-rule over using all of that.

    The diablerie rules deserve a mention if they've been used enough to get a starting Discipline to 5 and a second Discipline to 4 or 5 as well; especially if the whole PC coterie is doing it.

    Going from one Discipline at 3 and another at 1, and raising them to 5/5 takes 130 XP,...
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  • Heavy Arms
    replied to I have no issues with V5!
    OK... I was originally going to skip this thread, because V5 fans don't need me clogging up threads just about cool V5 stuff.

    But since this isn't actually that...

    1) Manfr this would all go a lot better if you listened to V5's detractors a bit more seriously, and stepped back a bit from ideas like people here think V5 fans are some sort of unique creature; we wouldn't have frequented heated threads between people on both sides of this if... there weren't people on both sides.

    2) There doesn't really seem to be much to add here. We've known since the alpha...
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  • Not in any moral or ethical philosophy that's worth using to examine these topics.

    If it's an axiomatic assumption that predation or parasitism (depending on how you want to categorize vampires and their feeding) for the purposes of survival is innately evil, then you're not using a philosophy where examining morality through the lens of innately destructive creatures has any real meaning. It's impossible to explore, "is my vampire truly evil?" if the game says, "all vampires are truly evil," because that question is now asked and answered.

    It's also...
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  • Which is rather lost on the V5 core:

    "In Vampire, you’ll be playing with evil. Your characters have to hunt for blood – an evil act in itself."

    It's kind of hard to feel like V5 is a game about if your monster will become evil when the book says their essential survival is evil.

    You can't really have it both ways. Vampire can either be a game where players are free to explore morality as they see fit, or Vampire can be a game where vampires are incapable of heroism despite their curse, and existing as one is inherently an act of evil anyway....
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  • When there's a good new (or copied from another game) idea in V5, there's virtually always a problem in execution. While what really counts as "new" is up to interpretation, this is an major stumbling block. How well you react to V5 if you played previous VtM editions, is frequently whether the potential of these new thing outweighs the time needed to invest in making them work for you rather than following how it was written; which as a WoD game is further troubled for setting issues because there will be metaplot built off those new setting elements to deal with too.

    ...
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  • OK, if you want to get more serious about this:

    Depending on how you define "know" most people know somewhere between ~250 to ~1,000 people (generally over a spectrum of closeness). ~500 is usually where sociologists settle on the balance of where Western cultures tend to subjectively draw the line between people you know vs people you've met and are one or two degrees separated from you core group (so people you know of instead of know).

    So, lets say the normal humans to any sort of supernatural is actually 1:5K

    This would mean that most people...
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  • Not really. The books mostly just default to "our world levels, but ignorant of the real way things work."



    Centuries... it hasn't been that long in the books since those powers really got started.



    But they do. People love monsters. Demons are more believed in than a lot of other supernaturals.

    Why? They're the ultimate excuse for our own bad behavior. "I didn't want to kill him! A demon used his infernal powers to make me do it!"

    A world of monsters is a world were far too many people would be happy...
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    Last edited by Heavy Arms; 11-30-2019, 08:52 AM.

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  • https://www.pewforum.org/2009/12/09/...ltiple-faiths/

    As an example. Pew notes that interestingly belief in the supernatural is trending up, not down, despite all the Internet fakes out there, and ~65% of Americans believe they've had some sort of supernatural or spiritual personal experience.



    The WoD books don't say that. It would really suck for mages and changelings if humanity actually disbelieved on that level.

    You're conflating "don't know the reality of," with, "don't believe in." Most people in...
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  • HA? What? Me?

    Anyway:

    1) Agreed that it doesn't have to be a Sacred Hunt prey. That said, it still has to be prey in some metaphoric or literal context; even if using it is designating someone as prey in a sense. If you don't have the intent to treat the target as prey, you don't have the intent necessary to flare your Renown.

    2) The way I read the rules, it only works on one target per use. Nothing actually stops you from using it on multiple targets, but each one would have to be a separate use of the ability.
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  • Reducing is a bad idea in general. It makes the problem worse as Inspired is a common reward for ES in the first place. It would let people stack over and over.

    Avoidance seems the best solution. If you have a Kith that does X, don't by a Merit that only does X too. Take a different Condition (or Inspired for something else) rather than replicate a bonus you already have, etc.

    While I understand it might not be satisfying, it's not like this is ever going to be forced on a player by the system. The system really isn't designed for increasing (if less than the sum of the...
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  • Nothing extra happens. It doesn't reduce the number of successes needed by X (which could then theoretically stack). It changes a 5 to a 3. Changing it to a 3 three times just gets you a 3.

    I think proindrakenzoi has the right advice on what to do if there's a stacking situation.
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  • The Sabbat is fairly well defined. Defining something doesn't stop people from adjusting it up or down as they want. Having a default definition informs people (including future authors of the books) of what the core idea really is, and then it can be played differently if desired: see M20's future fate sidebars.



    The issues remain that:

    1) The number of normal people in the WoD that already believe on some level and thus would use the leaks would confirm their belief in supernatural evil is much higher than the tiny fraction of people your assumptions...
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  • Nope.

    "You brought up two famous examples so I now I get to be a condescending know-it-all about things," does not fly with me.

    Want me to toss around more whistle-blowers and other individuals that don't count as whistle-blowers that have credibly revealed questionable government activities? Because I can if you'd like.



    Well, expected abuse of power, which isn't the same as corruption. There was plenty in the disclosures that wasn't actually normal governmental misbehavior that was exposed, even if most people don't know the details...
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Heavy Arms
Heavy Arms
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