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  • In short: yes. I do think there could be a middle ground, where we could keep most of the story of V5, but curb it back a bit, for the setting to resemble more how it was in the earlier editions....
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  • Emphasis added. New curses, new humanity, new disciplines, new mechanics for blood usage, compulsions...

    It's absolutely enough to make the game different in many people's eyes....
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  • I'd argue with the setting even. Maybe, the big strokes of where they went are logical conclusions on the surface, but the devil is in the details.

    Also, yes, the setting feels very different, the rules are different, the tone is different, the visuals are extremely different....
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  • VtR wasmostly hated, IMO, because it replaced VtM and precisely because it wasn't a continuation, but killed of the possibility of one. Look, we have this nice new game! Oh, you liked the old setting more? Too bad.

    I'm not convinced VtM Revised would have been that bad. The corebook is pretty tame. Ravnos is still a full clan, the things many people hated (namely, the ramping up to ToJ) came later.

    Mage Revised, oh yes. That would be a spectacular trainwreck these days, nearly on par with V5, with the caveat that Mage naturally has a smaller fanbase, so it'd be less visible...
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  • I treat the 20th stuff as metaplot too.



    Part of it is the "too much stuff in one go", yes, but part of it is the handling of said stuff, the extent and aftermath of the events, etc.

    What I really liked in M20's (optional) New Millenium metaplot is the handling of the aftermath of the Avatar storm. There was a time when everything went to hell, but now, it's clearing up and there are lots of new possibilities. I hope the writers will treat the V5 plot like that, because that has potential in my eyes and a lot more than the current situation. The...
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  • Morbus Agree. It's precisely the kind of unnecessary "streamlining" I never like in games, which only takes away cool concepts and story from the game.
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  • Yup. I don't like the Celerity powers since the preview and this is one of the reasons. This power is literally one-shot-one-kill, making the opponent unable to defend at all, or it does nothing, if the opponent has it too.

    Frankly, I have to say, while I like the idea of the physical disciplines are having multiple powers and more evocative ones, the execution of them is quite lacking, in my oppinion. Like Cel 2 doesn't add extra dice to anything, but dodge, Cel 1 making you always succeed, potence adding half to damage, etc. They are just not very well thought-out, again, in my...
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  • Maybe the Week of Nightmares too. Lots of people hate that, though that's a metaplot book, not a wholesale edition....
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  • Honestly, I always thought that the Giovani's organized crime boss-banker-renaissance merchant-necromancer-incestous family concept was hilariously great. ...
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  • PMárk
    replied to V5 Clan Lasombra symbol
    Yup and



    it already happened, in 2011, if I remember correctly, in the V20 continuity (Dread Names red list), but it isn't a part of the V5 timeline....
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  • And that's what I'm and others are talking about. 4e, despite all its merits (and I acknowledge them, even if I don't like that edition) was too different from what people imagined as "D&D". It wasn't a next edition, it was a whole different game, barely resembling D&D and thus, it alienated a lot of people, who wnated to play damned D&D, just with better rules.

    Honestly, if you can't understand that and still ascribe the whole problem to "nerdrage" and not wanting anything to change (untrue), I don't know what else to say. Except maybe one thing: you...
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  • I'm wondering about that too. It's not clear to me how several calns and bloodlines could merge, having the same disc spread, same weakness, etc.

    Well, wait and see.

    Also, I'm glad the various faiths of the kindred gonna be explored, that's good material. Still, it mildly disturbed me, in the ill-faited Cam book of V5, how big of a role religion is seemingly getting in the Cam. I very much wouldn't like to see it turning out as a medieval-ish state/church dichotomy, like how it was described with the Invictus/Lancea Sanctum in many cities in VtR. The Cam is a secular...
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  • Well, I guess you'd say nothing changed in Shadowrun either, for example, over the years... Except it did, just the core of the setting, the biggest strokes remained and that is good. It still feeld like Shadowrun, despite all the changes.

    You don't need to change the lookout of the whole game and setting, to have new things, changed status quo, new story, etc. You don't have to always go for radical revolution. You can introduce new things and change the setting over time, in smaller increments. You can even go for bigger changes, but avoiding altering the core feel of the seting...
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    Last edited by PMárk; 01-14-2019, 04:39 PM.

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  • There are already people, who came in during the V20 era and people who got introduced to it by Revised, but quite a bit after its ending. Some other people like to act and say that because V20 was a nostalgia product (and it was, at the beginning), it's only just old die-hards buying and playing it. No.




    Same there. After the corebook's release, I got nearly totally disinterested in it, aside from using some of the fluff. I'm mildly curious what Modiphius will do, in the future, though.

    That I'm talking about it a lot is actually due to the fact that...
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    Last edited by PMárk; 01-14-2019, 04:31 PM.

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  • Yup.

    Let's not forget: WoD literally outlived its official end and 5+years without any official support.

    As long as there are people willing to write for it and publish it in any form, and there are people who want to play it and buy the stuff, it'll live....
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  • PMárk
    replied to V5 Clan Lasombra symbol
    Read again, what Muad'Dib wrote. I'm not against metaplot, I'm advocating it in games and most of the games I like have metaplot.

    Metaplot is advancing the setting. When metaplot is used as a justification for re-writing the setting, that's another issue. See the Spellplague. FR had metaplot prior to it, yes, even with big shakeups. Yet, the Spellplague essentially re-wrote the whole, changing it essentially and suddenly, so, naturally, people took issue with it.

    The scope and ammount of V5's changes are outside of nomal metapot advancement.

    When there is...
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  • PMárk
    replied to V5 Clan Lasombra symbol
    Because it isn't. It's just, there are always people who had problems with the existing stuff, or got bored of it, so they want a new take.

    Also the "cult of new" is a very real phenomenon. It's good, just because it's new and different. I do not agree.

    Most cases, this mentality led to disaster in the past and understandibly so.

    Otherwise I agree with what you wrote....
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  • Ok, I'll give that, I didn't thought through it from that angle. Still, if we're coming from the v5 angle, it's still impossible, since the Cam doesn1t have any place for the Anarchs in it. They either take over, or not and even if they couldn't, they won't allow them to attend one of their gatherings and have a say in their choices.

    However, as I've said, the point was, in older books, that the Anarchs specifically got the clause in Thorns, that they submitt themselves to the Traditions, especially Masquerade, and as long as they do, they can practically do as they see fit. They...
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  • That, and they are, at the core, solitary preadtors, competing for quite finite resources....
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  • Remember the starting scene of Bloodlines, when LaCroic was giving a speech over the character's sire crossing the Traditions and thus, the character has to die? Then, Ninez shouting "bullshit", riling up the crowd and LaCroix changing the verdict? I liked that and I liked the whole situation of Anarchs in the game. You can't do those kind of scenes, if the two sects are in open war, Anarchs can't attend Elysium, can't have a say in how the Cam governs and so on.

    If you like the open hostility/open, but cold war aspect, that's okay by me. I'm just saying, I prefer the rebel...
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    Last edited by PMárk; 01-09-2019, 10:13 PM.

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PMárk
PMárk
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