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  • PMárk
    replied to Camarilla and Anarch Guides
    Well, yes. That's exactly the kind of social dynamics I'm missing from the new lay of the land. The stark Anarchs vs. Camarilla, privileged opressers vs. the oppressed "people" animosity just doesn't allow for the fluctuation of youngsters between the two sects, or for the mentioned moderates. The book mostly presents the radicals, the warlike and the antisocial outsiders.

    Yes, I get the metaplot justification for that and that it makes different stories possible (though you could have them in open conflict before too), but I just think the old one was more nuanced and interesting....
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  • PMárk
    replied to Camarilla and Anarch Guides
    Notice me if you're planning to come to Hungary and I'll gladly oblige.

    'cause I believe swordplay and duelling and matters of honor are arts to themselves and the Clan of the Rose should always preserve art, if the occasion arises. ...
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    Last edited by PMárk; Yesterday, 09:18 PM.

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  • PMárk
    replied to Camarilla and Anarch Guides
    That's a good remark and I'd agree.

    Just yesterday, I've contemplated the Anarchs as they were (and the difference in the presentation of sects between the old editions and V5, in general). Well, the books always distinguished Iconoclasts and Ideologues, but I think, we can separate distinct smaller groups in those.

    - The Essential Angry Teenagers of the vampiric world. The ones who'll grew out of it and became "proper" members of the Camarilla, as they start to acquire power and resources. They're mostly in because they're pissed that the elders want to order...
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  • PMárk
    replied to Camarilla and Anarch Guides
    I've heard the term used regarding activists on the streets too, so I wasn't aware of the net angle, just the annoying, parrotting specific narratives and buzzwords, derisive, full of themselves angle.




    Yeah, I get that. She's pretty much a joke. The stereotypical neo-comm Brujah anarch neonate, who's talking big and uses "fascist" in every other sentence and actually believes what she's talking, but doesn't know shit.

    It was annyoing that I had to deal with her and listening to her silliness, if I wanted to deal with the Anarch (which I...
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    Last edited by PMárk; Yesterday, 07:20 PM.

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  • And what are you all doing about it now, that you're aware? Aside from being horrified or outraged?



    Rhetorics. Aside, nothing else. You know and I know and literaly everyone who isn't a holier than thou hippocrist knows that it isn't about that. It is about personal vendettas and the fact that today, if you dare to portray some specific things, out of very strict, set boundaries, there's a group of people, who'll jump on you with vengeance. Even if you're on their side and actually agree with them on most of the moral underlines and goals. That's what bigotry does to...
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    Last edited by PMárk; Yesterday, 06:22 PM.

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  • PMárk
    replied to Camarilla and Anarch Guides
    Goth gods, Damsel annoyed the living hell out of me in Bloodlines. If there is a negative-stereotype SJW character in Bloodlines and in the whole Vampire universe, Damsel is. Yes, I'm aware of the irony that the game was made a decade before "SJW" became a thing. She's still horrible, on the "love to hate" level....
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  • PMárk
    replied to Camarilla and Anarch Guides
    Ok, convinced myself to actually read the Cam book. I'm currently at the cults section, at the beginning, but I can already tell several things:

    - The writing is not bad, in fact, it's enjoyable.

    - I don't really like this Cam. All the already discussed points, I won't repeat them, I just don't like the whole gist of it. On itself, it wouldn't be bad, on the contrary, but it's not the Cam I liked.

    - The separation from the Anarchs and the leaving of the Gangrel and the Brujah is too handwave-y at this point. The characters' justification that "it is...
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    Last edited by PMárk; Yesterday, 05:06 PM.

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  • Without readint the thread, since I don't have time for this shit now, I've just looked at the las page, to see where it devolved?

    And lo and behold, the usual arguments about Nazis. Why it always has to be about Nazis?

    No, please don't answer that, it was a rhetorical question, I know the answer. It's still tiresome.
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  • Which I don't like either, at this point.ű



    Since it was discussed earlier, the abyss of ontenebration isn't the Underworld....
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  • Hmm, let's see if I have ten...


    1. Gothic-punk is the soul and spirit of the game and still relevant in 2018, if only people could get the idea that it isn't about everyone looking as decked out for a goth-club night and it isn't about always playing certain bands during sessions and if they ACTUALLY READ THE F*CKING BOOKS, where they explain it, they'd realize how well it summarizes the core of the game. .

    2. Crossovers are good and the critters are okay not being mechanically similar, in a way they are in NWoD/CofD (though the powers should be worked out to,...
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    Last edited by PMárk; 11-10-2018, 09:51 PM.

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  • I disagree. It literally called upon darkness, which, in a mystical sense, was more of a "void" thing than an enthropic thing IMO. So, if they're lumping it up with other powers, not connected to that theme, like remnants of Necromancy, I disagree with that.

    Also, even if the spirit of the discipline remains, I still don't like all these cahnging of names in general, the lumping together of disciplines, which leads to losing fun and interesting powers that were with us for decades.

    Again, it's just my feel that they're trying very hard to distance the game from...
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  • Indeed. I just can't get this changing of names left and right. Like, does the game really needs even more cutting ties with all the established stuff? I've just seen that harpies aren't harpies any more and I just don't get the point. It feels changing things for the sake of changing them and distancing it from the old game. Which would be okay, if, you know, it wouldn't named VtM.

    Also, I don't really think it's a quite fitting name either. Obtenebration deals with darkness, not enthropy....
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    Last edited by PMárk; 11-09-2018, 09:07 PM.

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  • PMárk
    replied to Camarilla and Anarch Guides
    Weeeeel.... Revised tried that too...

    Though the, sometimes downright rude and antqagonistic and condescending attitude was stronger in some books than in others and it still had lots of materials for the "gonzo" parts, because there was the whole weight of the setting and story itself behind it. V5, however, well, they've said they've "had a 10 year gap to use and abuse"... Meaning "we ca justify any changes we want to make"....
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  • PMárk
    replied to Camarilla and Anarch Guides
    Also, The Gentleman Gamer , I noticed there's a Hungarian group of Anarchs in the book. I can appreciate that, as a Hungarian myself, as I appreciated the parts about my country in the Revised Brujah Clanbook too, however, I didn't read the actual writeup of the group, just flipped through the PDF, so I can't say if I'm liking this particular part, or not.

    However, the name of the group, I think there is a typo there. Depending on intended title, it could be:

    A Vér Hajnala - The Dawn of Blood, where "hajnala" is "dawn of".
    Or, "A Vér Hangja...
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  • PMárk
    replied to Camarilla and Anarch Guides
    You're conflating in-depth knowledge of metaplot with the broad glance on the history of groups in a, well, historical sense.

    For me, the connection to the past, the background, was always a big part of why I love VtM and the history parts of the of the core and big sect books, clanbooks and such were very important in that. Again, I1m not talking about the accumulated knowledge of all the books, but the parts in the core books were very important, IMO, to give a picture about the setting....
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  • PMárk
    replied to Camarilla and Anarch Guides
    Yeah. In a supplement, as non-default options.




    Maybe in 2e, which distanced itself a lot more from the "VtM 1e 2.0" attitude.

    The points I made still stand.








    bzzzzzt, wrong.




    Please elaborate, I'm not sure I got what you wanted to say with that.



    So... you acknowledge it's a lot more fractured and cities are more isolated than they were, practically during the whole run of VtM. That characters can go around isn't the...
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  • PMárk
    replied to Camarilla and Anarch Guides
    About the game as a whole? I can summarize that, but not now. about the two new supplements and the sects? I can only say when I've read them, which could take a while, since I'm just notthat motivated to prioritize it (which I never thought I'd say about a new VtM book ), but I'll get around eventually. However, I'm not expecting anything out of the line of the picture we've got presented with 'til now, just elaboration....
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  • PMárk
    replied to Camarilla and Anarch Guides
    Yes, but a new player won't get that historical context either. Which, I disagree with....
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  • PMárk
    replied to Camarilla and Anarch Guides
    Yes. As I said above, I iked the nuance of fighting against the system, while, essentially, still being part of the same system and society. It was a lot less black and white and provided interesting mroal dilemmas, both short and long-term.



    I can guess at the justificatio, but yeah, I agree with you....
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  • PMárk
    replied to Camarilla and Anarch Guides
    Yeah and CofD 1e had the Mirrors supplements, with chapters for adapting the game to various settings/genres, from space opera to dark fantasy. What that has to do with anything?...
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PMárk
PMárk
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Last Activity: Yesterday, 09:35 PM
Joined: 06-09-2015
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