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  • Sigh. I guess people just want to cheer for their favorite team. I like them all and am still standing by the opinion that no splat is "the best", they're just focused differently.



    Missed that, what was the result?



    Agree. They're very good at beating shit up, that's what they do.




    Agree too. Other splats could reach the level of badassness the Garou have in combat and sheer brutality, or at least close to it, but it's not a given and doesn't belittle the fact that they are generally the best at it....
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  • And I'd like to reiterate: an average pack of Garou would probably mop the floor with an average coterie, because a non-combat Garou is still a better combatant than a non-combat vamp. It's a little consolation that the coterie's main combatant could go more-or-less toe-to-toe with the Fenris Ahroun, if the other 3 members of the coterie are practically dog food and she suddenly have to face 4 wolves. That doesn't make wws better but it is why the other splats fear them, but it comes with weaknesses in other areas and bashing heads isn't frequently the best choice. Again, it's a tradeoff.
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    Last edited by PMárk; Yesterday, 03:07 AM.

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  • Which is a level 3 fetish. Yeah, a cliath would totally wander around with that. Should take into account state of the art body armor, combination disciplines, ghouls, blood-bonded swat forces, etc. on the vampire's part too?





    Just like it is central for a Ventrue



    Ok, i misread that, fair point. It's somewhat more efficient then. Still, it's not a surety it'll work and again, a lot of vamőire tricks don't depend on artificial weapons. Moreover, the caster didn't do anything else at that turn and spent a gonsis, which is a precious...
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    Last edited by PMárk; Yesterday, 03:06 AM.

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  • PMárk
    replied to game line compatibility
    And vampires don't relying on artificial weapons won't care. It's equally probable that a coterie will contain a Gangrel than a pack a CoG. Also, every vampire could bite.

    Also, the ww would need to beat the highest willpower score on the scene in a contested roll and probably it won't beat the Tremere, or the Ventrue present.

    Against mages? Forget it, they're starting from WP 5.

    Create element from a cliath? Come on, anyone with fortitude will soak that and the Tremere would respond in kind.

    Or what if we're just stop pretending that any splat's...
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    Last edited by PMárk; Yesterday, 12:34 AM.

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  • PMárk
    replied to game line compatibility
    Essentially agree, but I'd stress the same thing is which makes werewolves scary. If we compare a mixed coterie with a mixed ww pack, then probably the combat.monster characters will be more-or-less on par (I'd say wws are tougher -minus silver-, but the vamps could get ridiculous initiative ratings, attack and damage pools, especially in V20 and yeah, they don't have to turn into a big-ass furball for it), but for the rest, yeah every ww has 2-3 levels of fighter, while the non-combat vamps probably have none, so of course, in a straight-up combat, the wws would tear them to pieces. On the flipside,...
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  • PMárk
    replied to game line compatibility
    Agree. Everybody is good at different things and ideally, the ST should create stories where everybody could shine at some point. But really, that's the same with a splat-only game too, the ST would have the same headache to manage the loner, combat heavy Gangrel, the social butterfly Malkavian, the Tremere scholar and the Sneaky Nosferatu in the same group. Not everybody is equally good at everything, but everybody have their strengths. Swallow it and go on!...
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  • PMárk
    replied to game line compatibility
    I'd agree with most of that.

    For the OP: honestly, if you want to do crossover, just go for it and don't listen to the naysayers! The 20ths are reasonably compatible, by-the-large. The bigger problem is indeed miscommunication, or the lack of communication between the players and the ST, I'd say too.

    Yes, you would have to manage several different systems for supernatural powers, hence yes, you'd have to make some rules calls, but that's fine. Yes, with a crossover, you probably won't go for any one games's particular themes as much as you'd with a one-splat-only game...
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    Last edited by PMárk; 10-17-2017, 10:40 PM.

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  • Agree. I'm seriously lagging with movies and just watched them with my sister. I was astonished how perfectly VtM it was. Like, it'd take 3 minutes to adapt the whole into a VtM story, just change the families/organizations into the clans and the characters into vampires and you're basically done.

    If Only lovers Left Alive was perfect for VtM from the brooding/humanity/gothic/ennui/blood and urban decay side, John Wick is perfect from the action and underworld side and also conveyed the dichotomy of luxury, sophistication and ruthless violence, antique and modern perfectly....
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  • PMárk
    replied to Surprise morality
    Yes, you're right, it isn't accurate, it's a metaphor. They are just working totally differently than animals, including humans and we don't really know just how aware they are, really and in what way. So again, being biased toward animals is understandable in my book, but taking it as some kind of ethical superiority is indeed hipocrisy. Also, putting one being's life on a higher shelf because it's closer to the "human experience" just doesn't sit right with me. Honestly, I'm a lot more saddened, when I see an old tree, cutting down with no good reason, besides avarice or convenience...
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  • PMárk
    replied to World of Darkness and the World
    Judging from what we know so far, I think V5 will be more political and even more leftist political, but maybe closer to the older editions' feel. I'm seeing a lot more anti-authoritarian themes right now than identity politics themes. Which is good in my book. Albeit I could be totally wrong, we'll see.

    Also, my problem with OPP's works never were the inclusion of identity stuff in the games. That was always a part of it and rightly so. But I didn't like how they sometimes changed the setting to fit it to certain contemporary politics, while toned down a lot of the old themes. Most...
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  • PMárk
    replied to Surprise morality
    http://science.howstuffworks.com/lif...-feel-pain.htm
    http://www.bbc.com/earth/story/20170...ll-and-respond

    Of course, one could argue about the definition of "pain", but in my eyes, if a being could sense a harmful effect to itself and is responding to it in some way, especially immediately, yeah, it "feels pain".

    Of course plants work differently than 'us', animals, but they're alive, and they are have some sort of awareness, even if we don't understand it fully at this point. We're biased towards animals,...
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  • PMárk
    replied to Surprise morality
    The more I hear about some extreme social phenomenon from the US West-Coast metropolitan areas, the less inclined I'm to go there. A shame, because the cities would interest me otherwise, as well as other cultural things. My sincere apologies for everyone from there, but a lot of things are just way overboard lately.



    Ah, yes, the usual hipocrisy.

    Think about it: plants do feel pain and dread. When you kill an animal, you're usually doing it fast. When you're processing a plant, it's practically still living, when you're chopping it to pieces...
    ...
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  • PMárk
    replied to Surprise morality
    Oh, the sweet hipocrisy of modern, first-world city life...

    Seriously, I know veganism is a big thing here and there right now, but assuming someone is a sociopath, because of killing for food? That's just plain stupid.

    Also, you'd have to kill anyway, you're just, for example killing plants, but that's another story.

    I'm living in the agglomeration, in Hungary. Not even far from the capital, just some 50 km afar. I'm familiar with slaughtering animals for eating, my grandparents had pigs, chicken and my cousin still have goats, poultry and so on. I killed...
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  • PMárk
    replied to World of Darkness and the World
    Tápiószecső, Hungary.

    It's a middle-sized town, or an -almost- small city near (45 minutes with train) to Budapest. I love the capital, with all my heart (it's really one of the most beautiful and history-ridden cities of the world, the centre with the Danube is even a World Heritage and rightfully so) with all of its scenes and cultural life and I went there for high school and I'm still going for participating in basically anything (for example, rpgs), but actually, I always liked to go home to the agglomeration more (okay, daily commuting still sucks). There's something for...
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  • Honestly, no, but MMOs are soooo not for me, it doesn't say anything. But I get what you're saying and agree (really, I think we're agreeing on most things). Especially because for an rpg brand to work, either tabletop or LARP, you need experienced DMs and enthusiastic event organizers and those are tend to be long-term fans. Since WoD isn't a totally new brand, but an old, existing one, I think they do want to build on hardcore fanbase, but they also want to be fresh, approachable, relevant to new gamers and the cultural context of nowadays and sexy in presentation to contemporary eye and...
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    Last edited by PMárk; 09-22-2017, 10:30 AM.

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  • PMárk
    replied to Alpha playtest
    Nothing's wrong with that! Really, there is a substantial group of people, who didn't like humanity as morality in previous editions and VtR 1e and absolutely loved the concept in VtR 2. That's fine, I just don't think it's the majority of VtM players, who'd prefer this.

    I'm not saying it's a bad concept, it's 100% as viable as the morality one. However, it totally changes the core premises of VtM and makes big parts of the setting... I'm-not-sure-how working. I know people said the same about hunger, but with that, I don't feel it. With this, I do.

    As I said, touchstones...
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  • PMárk
    replied to Alpha playtest
    Touchstones as a concept of humanity just doesn't fit for VtM in my eyes. Just doesn't. It'd be cool as an option, as a background or merit. I hope the idea of changing humanity into this will die a quick and painless death and soon.

    It's good we could give feedback, I just can't imagine most VtM fans liking this.
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  • A little caveat to my previous post: I think Tobias said "make this shit funagain", not "great". Damned politics.

    Yeah, if they fall that will be probably spectacular. However, I don't think it'll depend primarily on the tabletop rpg at the end. It is important as the core foundation of the WoD experience, but we all know it's just a sliver of the whole. LARP, computer games, potential novels, comics and tv series will be much more important in the success of WW and most of all, community management. Their WoD could be a successful brand, while V5 fails as an rpg...
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    Last edited by PMárk; 09-21-2017, 06:07 PM.

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PMárk
PMárk
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