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  • Actually, I believe it could have been a good alternative as a part of the Hunger system.

    Like: for every every Hunger dice coming up as a 1, subtract one from the successes.

    I have no complete rules system in my mind, but I think it could be a good starting point to represent the distraction of hunger in another way than going straight for losing control over your character.

    Also, I absolutely think that the Hunger dice shouldn't be part of every roll. It should depend on the level of hunger. Low hunger affecting only high-tension situations, or combat and...
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  • And still remained very different from the Louis-type self-hating vampire. Also, it happened right in the second book of the series and the character remained the focal point ever after that, while Louis faded into the background.



    Yet never became the self-hating type of Louis and Angel.




    Yes, I meant the two main characters of Only Lovers Left Alive, one of the best vampire (and VtM) movies in my eyes. Adam was suicidal due to being totally jaded on humans and how they are fucking up everything and who pulled him out of it? Not a human...
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    Last edited by PMárk; 01-22-2020, 01:59 PM.

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  • On that logic, many iconic vampire characters from different source material could not be player characters. Lestat (and half the books' crew) couldn't. Spike couldn't. Adam and Eve couldn't.

    For me, this is a quite narrow view of "what Vtm should be" and "how it should be played". Yes, it's one of the core themes and playstyles, but it's wrong, in my eyes, to restrict the game to it. Sorry, but it's just onetruewayism.


    Also, again, it goes back to the argument that simply being a vampire is evil or not on itself? Say you are a vampire. You...
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  • Those two are in fact the same, because best version for who, according to what vision of the game?

    They had a very specific picture of the game and tried to make the best version of Vampire according to that vision....
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  • Well, that happens, when a team approaches a long-standing IP not with the intention of making a new edition that appeals to the whole fanbase, building on everything that people loved about the actual game that is/was, but with the mindset of making the game that "always should have been", according to them....
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  • This is also something already discussed a lot in the past, but I'd like to add two things for the sake of the recent discussion:

    1. The "vampire mythos indeed contained the trope of vampires being obsessed about their prey. But Touchstones aren't that. What Touchstones try to replicate is a much newer addition to the modern vampire myth, brought in with works like Twilight and Vampire Diaries and, arguably, Buffy at first. These works pushed the idea, that the vampires who have meaningfull relationships with humans are "good", because well, they needed protagonists...
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  • Good point....
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  • We've talked a lot about this before, but I'm still saying that while I get why you like it, for me, for example, it actually took a lot away from the nuance of vampire politics and the complexity of the setting and the groups. For me the Anarchs are far more interesting as the loyal opposition and rebels of the Camarilla, with their halfaw-in-halfway out station they had hold in earlier editions, with open conflict and totally Anarch-controlled cities being the rare exception. This new take on this whole stuff is just a boring us vs them, rich vs poor, entitled vs downtrodden black and white...
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  • D&D 5 is very good for what it does, ie: being, for one, a game that demands far less involvement and preaparation and system mastery, thus being a lot easier on new and casual players and old players who don't want to spend much time on the game outside the actual game, because of other obligations. It's also acceptable for people who are more storygame-oriented, but also like fantasy and well, most people play D&D for that.

    What it doesn't do well is satisfying people, who actually want more crunch, for whatever reason. More detailed simulation, more interesting combat with...
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  • That too. I'm just not in for a system, that punishes me if I roll badly and if I roll well, for the sake of artificial "drama" and heavy-handedly driving home the point of how much a monster a vampire is, not because of choices and actions, but because of the beast....
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  • Well, in my oppinion it does. It doesn't say explicitely, that you can't play it any other way. It even pays some lip service to the idea with the framing of the Convictions. Still, summing up all the changes, both system and setting, it's quite clear to me, that it was pretty much written with an "one true way to play Vampire" mindset. Note, it's not new. VtM's and WW's writers and fanbase were always riddled with that. The Revised ST's guide is horribly condescending and one true wayist at places, as well as other books.

    Still, the setting contained enough stuff for other...
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    Last edited by PMárk; 01-07-2020, 07:01 PM.

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  • Pretty much my problem with Hunger, as it turned out. I liked the concept, but the execution is just too much for my tastes. I want to play competent vampires, who could manage their beast, if they're carefull and I prefer playing in a system where I can thoughtfully consider assigning resources (ie: using disciplines and spending blood) in the face of the consequences than a system where I have to flip a coin every time I dare to use powers. If someone calls that "playing superheroes with fangs", I don't care. Also the 5-point scale for Hunger is just too harsh.

    In the...
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PMárk
PMárk
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