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  • I think there lies the fundamental difference between the yes canon/no canon, or yes metaplot/no metaplot crowds. One wants a toolbox of choices to, as you said, "build a game around", while the other wants a consistent, continual, living setting. Yes if you don't like particular directions of the story and changes in WoD, or Forgotten realms, or Sahdowrun, it sucks. Still, that kind of consistency is what makes long-term plots possible, not to mention novels and it's great to build a big, detailed world, because those plots, writeups and just stuff could accumulate and build on each...
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  • It boils down to: do you want a toolbox setting, or a continual, "living" setting? For the former, multiple possibilities for any given thing, even contradictory ones are good. For the later, you'll need some consistency for reference in future books.

    The 20ths could have been "NWoD"-esque (read: favoring the toolbox approach), because they were/are anniversary editions, building on 20 years of metaplot and lore an are metaplot-agnostic themselves.


    Of course, these aren't absolutes. You could have a continual setting and metaplot, with some...
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  • On the other hand, with games and settings with extensive lore and metaplot, there is an official version of events and background. Yes, you could modify that at your leisure and some books, like the TMR are intentionally ambiguous and/or giving a number of possibilities, while some secrets always remain in the shadows. But for those games, the official versionj isn't irrelevant, but it's relevant to the degree in your home game that you want it to be.

    In other words: Masquerade isn't Requiem. There is Canon material. However, TMR is a rather Requiem-esque book in that regard....
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  • PMárk
    replied to 5e clans
    I got so far that it'll be more an elite club, rather than a "vampire government". They'll be more restricted and exclusive, where the streets will mostly belong to the Anarchs.

    Actually, two things came to mind. One is the Invictus from Requiem, but on a bigger scale and still with more internal communication and establishment beyond the specific city.

    The other is the political landscape from VtM Bloodlines....
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  • I just listened to this interview: http://bjgeeknation.com/2018/05/16/b...n/#t=13:09.915

    Karim said that the pictures on the Modiphius page are just "mock-ups" and that the final game will look even better... Count me interested.

    Also that one of their foremost design goals was to reduce the ammount of dice rolls, but increase the possibble outcomes of every roll. Also that they could have gone further with changes, but decided to keep d10s and the dice pool system (thankfully, IMO). Honestly, I liked this part of the...
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  • Anything from anyone?
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  • PMárk
    replied to The D&D thread
    I think, in-universe, at least on FR, it had something to do with the Faerzress, the magical radiation of the Underdark. Drow magic was also weaker on the surface, if I recall correctly. I think, from 3e on, it's not really a thing anymore (not sure about 5e in that regard). There were the Starlight and Shadows books by Cunningham, where Liriel Beanre managed to inscribe a rune into the world tree in Rashemen and thus anchoring drow magic to the surface. I think their magic acts normally since then aboveground, but not sure about items. For what it's worth, in the latest Drizzt books, there are...
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  • PMárk
    replied to Paths and the Sabbat in 5e
    As I see it, the Touchstones system, since Requiem 2e was designed to drive home the point that you became a monster and you are no longer a part of society, but you're trying to, because that keeps you sane. So, yeah, it is designed to increase "personal" horror as in, existential horror and feeling of otherness and ostracism. And in Requiem 2e, it works. I just don't particularly like it, because it stresses one kind of stories and not really support (or even actively hinders) others.

    And really, it goes against just too many things in VtM's fluff. How many clans' first...
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  • PMárk
    replied to Paths and the Sabbat in 5e
    Yeah, and that's why I say Touchstones could be an, in fact, nice addition as a background, or merit. I just disagree with the premise of this take on Humanity as a baseline.

    As I said above, that's the Being Human/Vampire Diaries kind of humanity. You are more human, because you connect with humans. That's, again a viable approach, but it doesn't fi a lot of characters, from VtM and other source material too. That Humanity is keeping yourself adhering to humane morals, instead of becoming an inhuman monster is also a viable take....
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  • PMárk
    replied to Paths and the Sabbat in 5e
    Though that's already leaning toward the interpretation of humanity as connection to humans. They had very deep relationships with each other and with other vampires, they clearly weren't sociopaths. They've just distanced themselves from humans after several hundreds (maybe more) years of unlife, but they weren't inhuman or monstrous. You could do that with the old Humanity, while maintaning a high value, but not with the Touchstones system.

    The point of Humanity as morality, instead of connection to humans, is keeping human values as guidelines and restrictions against the Beast....
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  • PMárk
    replied to Paths and the Sabbat in 5e
    Yeah. I'd argue, even the manager/delivery boy wasn't really a touchstone for Adam... just a convenience.

    Honestly, it was the most Masquerade-ish film I've ever seen. The two main characters are just Autarkis Torreador ancillae (say hello to Auspex as touch!), with a respectably high level of Humanity, who are trying to lay low, leave out of the Jyhad and doing their own thing. The little sister might have been an Anarch from the West Coast who fucked up some shit and had to run.

    In short, humans as Touchstones as the base for the Humanity system is stressing the idea...
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  • PMárk
    replied to Paths and the Sabbat in 5e
    Even in modern media. A lot of the tv-shows and movies like the whole connection with humans aspect, because they want to protray a much more consummable,much more mainstream-audeince friendly, much more "domesticated" picture of vampires. True Blood, Twilight, Vampire Diaries, Being Human. It's not a bad thing, it's a viable approach and understandable. It's much more relatable and, well, humane, if vampires are acting like human, eating food, walking in daylight.

    But take more "serious" works. For example (as I say frequently, I love the film), Only Lovers Left...
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  • PMárk
    replied to Paths and the Sabbat in 5e
    I didn't think about it like that, until now, but honestly, well said.

    That's realy the problem with the whole Touchstone-Humanity concept and I had the same problem with requiem 2e back then. It makes introvert or straight up antisocial and not-keeping-humans-in-high-regard vampires unplayable, or at least strongly discouraged. It stresses playing one kind of vampires and telling a specific kind of stories. I could resign for that, in the case of Requiem, but Masquerade already has tons of material, including signature characters, whole sects and so on, to whom, connection to specific...
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  • PMárk
    replied to Paths and the Sabbat in 5e
    I'd just make a emark that since we do not know anything about how generation would work in V5, we can't say the above either....
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  • PMárk
    replied to Best VtM Fiction?
    I actually wonder sometimes how much my attitude to WoD was colored by having the first contacts with it from Masquerade of the Red Death and Horizon War...

    I mean, I just don't have the aversion toward "name dropping" and signature characters and epic storylines and generally "high level play" style stories and lots of action than some Vamp/WoD fans (or even writers) seem to have. I've always seen the game and setting as soemthing that has ample potential for very personal horror and street-level focused stories, but for epicness as well and honestly, I like both....
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  • I actually wondered if they re someone from WW in disguise......
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  • ...and the World goes on without difference outside the US...


    Honestly, I think in the WoD, sups have their channels to get weapons, if they want. They re already working mostly under the radar of society. A lot of them doesn't really need guns anyway....
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  • PMárk
    replied to Paths and the Sabbat in 5e
    Exactly.

    Besides, that's one of the reasons why I don't think forcing this Requiem 2e-type Humanity into VtM is a good thing (well, aside from making lot of now perfectly viable VtM character concepts unviable). As you've said, Humanity is Morality and because it is, it's compatible with the other Morality systems. If Humanity is a totally different something, the whole system breaks, mechanically and fluff-wise too....
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  • PMárk
    replied to Paths and the Sabbat in 5e
    I just can't wrap my head around the whole idea of Cam and Sabbat being totally different games with different rules. I mean I can understand the idea, yes, but it totally doesn't make any sense at at all.

    The two aren't existing in deifferent settings. They aren't even different gamelines, like Vampire and Werewolf (and I hated the whole "Lupines aren't Garou" arguments since I'm a WoD fan), they are the same friggin' game. Humanity was always a Path among many (well, since the introduction of Paths), just the most prevalent in the modern nights. A character could migrate...
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  • PMárk
    replied to OPP, VtM 5E, and the Future
    No, you didn't misunderstand.

    Also yes, you are right that people got those impressions from the core books and that it's somewhat unfair to compare that to the entire length of WoD.

    However. WoD's interconnectedness is baked into the setting right from the start, from the core books, into the clans, into the history chapters, into the very workings of the game. It immediatelly gives people a lot of footholds and grasps to the setting that they could identify with. CofD added a lot of those things later in the form of the books you just listed and added them as optio...
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    Last edited by PMárk; 05-10-2018, 09:13 PM.

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PMárk
PMárk
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