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  • Which makes things awkward considering this occurs naturally, so it can come from a lupus or kin of either fera that might not know they're with another changer.

    Considering the changer would have a half-wolf/half-coyote form in Lupus, it's kind of up in the air what happens to it....
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  • Prometheas
    replied to Demons, Defined
    I'm be more iffy one using paradigm rulings on static magic. The point of linear magics is that they Aren't flexible and have inherent and (mostly) unchanging rules. This is also compounded by the fact that non-mage magics do get effected by a kind of objective morality. Vampires can be effected by disciplines differently based on their humanity/path, werewolf gifts effects change based on wyrm taint, wraith arcanoi have different effects for spectres, demons lores change based on torment, etc.

    My personal take on "demons" is to just make it an adjective for entities. Any...
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  • Prometheas
    replied to Sorcerer Revised
    Weirdly enough WoD20 does have a splat with an aspect system. The Hsien in C20 use aspects like their earlier edition counterparts, but in a much different way.

    Hsien spend dice from their dicepool on aspects rather than rolled successes and a single success is all you need to cast an effect. In play this means casting bigger effects isn't gimped by success quotas while still making them risky to cast(you're more likely to botch with less dice after all). It's also A Lot faster since people don't need to roll as many dice or count their successes....
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  • I always envisioned playing a syndicate mage in their element is like playing a crossbreed between the sims and civilization. They're forte being careful planning and placement of funds to work rituals that progress over the course of Years with the ultimate goal of building near-permanent ongoing effects or wonder-structures that effect entire nations. On the flip side, their paradox backlashes are the worst, sinking anything from small companies to entire nations in so much debt and poverty that it curses generations of humanity with it's after-effects....
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  • Prometheas
    replied to Sorcerer Revised
    No, To get 3 levels in one aspect and 2 in another would require 4 successes total. The first success counts for every aspect, but all successes afterwards must be counted individually. So to get 5 in 3 aspects would require 13( 1 for the first success and 12 more to add +4 to each aspect)



    Might also be good to note that the aspects in Sorcerer Revised are more powerful in many areas than the straight paths in WOD sorcerer. For example: Conjuration 6 is required to move 3 objects of up to human size, but in Revised 3 success does that and 6 successes let's you move 100...
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  • Yeah. Though if you're feeling adventurous you can also just walk there from one of the connection points in the middle umbra....
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  • Prometheas
    replied to Sorcerer Revised
    In old WOD sorcerer, the effects are similar to vampire thaumaturgy in that each dot gives you greater power a path and the difficulty is based on the level of power you're trying to invoke. In this system, number of successes just determines how well you perform the effect and a single success is good enough for most things outside of combat. Problems arise in that sorcerers are the only splat that require multiple turns to invoke any effect beyond first level. The logical result of that is players forced to sit around doing nothing for up to six turns while their character does nothing but cast...
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  • The learning of the mind sphere for social engineering isn't Technically necessary, as a "Wonder" doesn't technically need to be a physical object in the material world. You could instead make a "Social Technique" wonder using an idea as the object and use it's effect on those that practice the idea in proximity of the person holding the "original" in their head.

    Problems with this arise from the fact that there'll only be one effect per wonder unlike fast-casting and there's also only one wonder, so the effect can't be spread like a virus. "Loosing"...
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  • The path does not require actions to invoke and the Level 4 ability dual thought explicitly categorizes thaum paths as "mental actions". Source the V20 rulebook rites of the Blood.



    The core rules already simulate that by allowing vampires to soak lethal damage(getting stabbed in the lever) with stamina. The power does let you use stamina and/or armor to soak considering it ignores any offensive magic on the sword(no aggrivated damage) and defensive magic on the one getting hit(no fortitude or other disciplines), just not the sword user(potence, celerity, and...
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  • Yeah. Thaumurgy is normally pretty "balanced" in that paths are not as powerful as normal disciplines at the same cost unless you have it in-clan, in which case it's really versatile, but still expensive.

    On the other hand a couple path like this one, the path of the focused mind(two discipline per turn as a reflex action), that assamite path awakening of the true steal(let me ignore your fortitude while I keep my potence and celerity), and the assamite path Hunter's winds(obfuscate, but better in every way) are so imbalanced that you have to wonder what the authors were...
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  • Wish they'd been the carthaginian brujah instead. There's already plenty of narrative reason for a collection of brujah elders and methusela to hate the ventrue and camerilla by extension. Carthage is also where their antedeluvian is sealed, so having their ante be an inceptor who's knowledge was lost when Carthage fell(and regained later) would work fine to explain Temporis....
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  • That might be a paradigm thing though. Same way that technocrats can affect the spirit world with Matter in the convention books and dreamspeakers require spirit for all effects in "How do you Do That"....
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  • I wouldn't say level 5 sorceries are equal to level 3 powers. Alchemy 5 for example, which let's you copy level 3 powers, let's you temporarily copy multiple powers from most supernaturals at the same time. That includes gifts, disciplines, certain rotes, shintai, psychic powers, and mummy spells, which can make for a veritable arsenal of abilities and weird synergies.

    I'd actually put sorceries as roughly equal to thaumaturgy paths and weaker than typical vampire disciplines or garou gifts....
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    Last edited by Prometheas; 10-01-2020, 03:55 AM.

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  • "Hunters hunted" 1 and 2 aren't a "Hunter" splat books, they're VTM splat books for playing normal humans fighting vampires. Neither book has anything to do with the imbued. Sorcerers also aren't imbued and don't have the "uniting weak humans against strong supernaturals" theme that HtR had.

    Second, the sorcery paths were presented as updated versions of sorcerer revised paths, but with a number on nerfs onto a system that was already much weaker than a "normal" splat's abilities. Personally, I like sorcerers better than mages because they have...
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  • The biggest problems for sorcerers(super-humans in general) is that they're nerfed hard compared to big supernaturals and white wolf seemed to want to double-down on that rather than make sorcerers able to be their own thing. Campare sorcerer revised to kinfold: a breed apart and hunters hunted 2, the paths given in the later 2 books are several steps down from what was presented in the former and sorcerer revised began with an number of unnecessary nerfs compared to WOD: Sorcerer.

    Their's also an inherent problem with the mechanics. It's obvious they were trying to make sorcery feel...
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    Last edited by Prometheas; 09-28-2020, 06:23 AM.

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  • ...Personally I ignore the Gehenna books if I can. From placing [Ventrue]'s death before a number of 4th gens were embraced, retconning large chunks of meta-plot, and making players into spectators in their own game session, I generally hate most of what came out of those books.

    I'll stick with the 2nd edition statted out powers. They're clearly defined, in that they have actual mechanics, and have limitations that players can work around rather than be put on the spectator bench or railroaded into to the exact specific thing the ST/Author wants rather than being able to have agency....
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  • That's an interesting take. I ran something similar in the the Ante's were capital-I "Immortal" creatures that only went into torpor if they were downed. The only way to get rid of one was to diablerize it and take it's place, with the side effect of slowly inheriting the memories of the diablerized party and everyone they've ever diablerized. By modern nights, repeated diableries both ways had turned the Antes into walking conglomerates of souls and fractured memories rather than individuals, all of whom are desperately trying to find a way Out of being vampires and/or immortal in general....
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    Last edited by Prometheas; 09-26-2020, 01:04 AM.

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  • Prometheas
    replied to Problems in the WoD timeline
    Ironic, considering the setting has actual time police....
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  • Chimerstry 10 "only" allows you to trap people physically in an imaginary world of your design. It doesn't really give you access to anything in that world in the real and doesn't take away the powers of those trapped inside.



    Infinite XP/etc. is stretching it considering you can't go very far back in time(only rounds-days at most at the highest levels) and you go back to how your body was when you were at that time(which also means the same level of XP, disciplines and backgrounds)



    It was specified, the level 10 ritual for Thaum makes...
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  • Ventrue is still up for debate. The writers of gehenna wrote them off as dead during a time-frame before a number of ventrue 4th gens were embraced(not just mithras), so unless the ventrue ante can also time-travel it's dead is contradictory to cannon(which is honestly nothing new).

    I'm personally in the "Ventrue is most likely alive" camp. The Ante has master of dominate and presence, so a mass mind-wipe similar to Lambrosa's "diablerie" is still in the cards. Same with Ravnos/Zapathasura, but replace with Chimerstry....
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Prometheas
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