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[Ambrosia]

"Folding Gate of Armaghast"
Forged by Dragon's Fire, page 52

[Ambrosia]

In the end, it really just boils down to that you should use a mixture of whatever you prefer

Oh yeah, true that.



And this, right there, always has been the #1 point of confusion, because there are so many example Artifacts depending on what you roll when using it. :| Then there are Artifacts that do not require *a specified roll at all* and give amazing effects. It's a mess. It's gotten a little bit better with the Book Of Secrets, especially the Wonder Creation, but that quote still keeps things unclear, and the actual examples don't help. Just like...

[Ambrosia]

It goes back and forth as a matter of "Pick your poison".
Technomancer's Toybox is a Second Edition book, while Dragon's Fire is Revised. Dragons Fire explicitely states that Devices 'contain a Mage's Willpower' and act as independently in terms of Arete rolling as Talismans. (Page 46 DF)
M20 and M20 Book of Secrets on the other hand references the Toybox book once more for further examples, and seems to be treating Devices more akin to what you describe, yeah. (M20 has more connections to 2nd than Revised anyways, rules-wise)....

[Ambrosia]

I have a feeling that that problem will sooner or later be solved through the Storyteller Vault, and books that people write up that collect a type of information from across books in exactly such formats. Bonus: You don't need to be online, and it's one-off fees rather than subscriptions. The con is of course, that volunteers need to write the stuff up and gather it, even if they get compensated through the purchase....

[Ambrosia]

P.s.
"My werewolf friends axe got eaten in our last session"

What.

[Ambrosia]

Matter 1 would allow you to sense impurities, and how evenly distributed the metal consistency and structure in the weapon is - but you'd still ened to fix it on your own with the forging tools. Still, it'd make things much much easier.
Forces 2 not only allow you to see how well distributed and strong the heat is, but also shift it around, which is a massive help during your forging.

With forces 1 and matter 1 you could cast an effect that reduces the difficulty of the forging rolls by up to -3, depending on Arete successes - thus a forging rol that normally would have difficulty...

[Ambrosia]

I still very very strongly believe that Wonders do not "toss out a full effect with only one success". Every described Wonder that I look at, wether it uses a Mage's Arete, or the Wonder's Arete, always refers to the results of the Wonder's effect being based on the actual amount of success resulting from the roll when using the Wonder.

Examples for Artifacts/Talismans as written:

"An Enlightened character can also use a built-in Mind 2
Empathic Bond Effect. The dice pool for this Effect comes from
the wearer’s own Enlightenment Trait, which...

[Ambrosia]

Only wonders that do not depend on the wielder having an Arete score. That was Moirdryd's point....

[Ambrosia]

That's what M20's "Technocracy Reloaded" is about, and it's actually in the making! It's the successor to "Guide To The Technocracy"...

[Ambrosia]

That's...literally what happens.
Except those wonders then cease being wonders as they become a consensual norm, and become everyday bleeding edge weaponry.
And as for the kinds of wonders that don't fit the consensus, despite technocratic mass-production ("How can this hold so much energy?", "there is no way you can pack that in such a small thing", "etc."), those are exactly the devices that only get handed to extraordinary citizens, because in the hands of sleepers Paradox would be a bitch. Remember that even for wonders that sleepers *can* use in theory,...

[Ambrosia]

The "Enlightened Grimoire" is a godsend already. All the rotes, from all the existing books, sorted into magick categories, with book page references. 211 pages of it. Along with differences between editions explained. That one's amazing.

[Ambrosia]

W00t! Finally.

[Ambrosia]

!

I want! Printed! Instant! Shut up and take my money!

[Ambrosia]

Joke's on you, he's a Malkavian and the videos are a series of events where a poor Neonate is getting more and more Demented!

[Ambrosia]

I disagree with the math there.
A Messy Critical happens whenever you have a "Critical Win" - i.e. you get a pair of 10's, which are worth 4 successes - but one of the die in the pair is forced to be a hunger die.

Consider the situation, however, of rolling two normal tens and one Hunger Die ten. You can build your Critical Win out of the two normal tens instead of using the ten the Hunger Die gave you This leaves the Hunger Die ten unpaired, and thus the Messy Critical is avoided.

Thus, the formula becomes "You get a Messy Critical whenever you roll...

[Ambrosia]

As a simple rule, magickal attacks that can actually be dodged use a normal attack roll for hitting, and the Arete roll for magickal damage.
See page 535 of M20:



So don't worry, there essentially are no situations of Pure Arete Roll vs. Dodge....

[Ambrosia]

Yeah, anything you toss or slash with can be dodged. If it moves, you can move out of its way, simple as that.
And I agree that for things that can be dodged, attack roll for attacking and Arete for damage (remember that it uses the magic damage table on Page 504, and that forces automatically has +1 level on that table..) is the way to go.

However there are many ways of also doing fire-based attacks (or other forces) that simply cannot be dodged. Simply combine Forces with Life and you have target-seeking fireballs, or an instant lightning strike hitting them...or simply them...

[Ambrosia]

Okay, I'm not one of the folks that are deep into criticizing V5, but...wow. WOW.
I expected a sheet that simply does a very plain aesthletic, no fancyness , etc.
But....*that*...that thing behind the first post's link is...I did not expect it to be that much on the level of "Let's quickly slap a sheet together".

[Ambrosia]

Nobody expects it!

Also, that video is really nice so far, stll watching....

[Ambrosia]

It sounds like the SI is like Strike Force Zero, just scattered all throughout agencies over the world, and less "top secret, inofficially funded" and more "rogue". Interesting.