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  • No. No.

    No. I accept that you can call them different games, but I disagree, or at any rate, I personally refuse to consider them unrelated games. As far as being a "direct continuation" of each other, I would rather say NWoD was built on the remains of the OWoD. All I will agree with is that this is a complicated case and that I don't see why it should be officially wrong to say that CoD is the continuation of the oWoD as it was when it ended.

    Let me offer an alternative to my statement :

    I consider (in particular) Vampire the Requiem 1e to be...
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    Last edited by S. Brechen; 04-22-2017, 03:54 PM.

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  • "Now that they're billed as two different entities. That's the thing. So now that the publishers has stated that those games are totally different, it invalidates the fact that they sold it as the replacement for Masquerade ? This is what I'm talking about here. All those ridiculous comparisons with D&D (a game from a different publisher, with an independent publishing history, which is about playing in a medieval fantastic setting, with character classes, and all the things that make it entirely different from anything White Wolf has ever been doing with either the OWoD or the CoD) are...
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  • I don't think the legal aspect is a completely separate issue from what the readers perceive. There's probably a lot to get from that info about what was intended in given game and how that intent either got fulfilled or changed through editorial shenanigans.

    About the people I talked to and made the comment about OWoD being the old edition, they knew the game pretty well and are much more familiar with it than I am. It's still possible they didn't identify various editions to Masquerade, but it's also possible they used the term "edition" loosely (which i don't really have...
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  • Maybe, but the fact that this was their general feeling tells me something about how different a game NWoD and OWoD are perceived. What i'm saying is it seems to be more a semantics thing, really, and not a particularly important one at that. I mean, maybe this is an exactly science, to say what is and isn't a totally different game but somehow, I don't think it is. Mostly, though, if we call it a different game, you gotta admit it's a hell of a weird case. 1e is kinda of a strange buffer zone for a lot of things between Masquerade and 2e, there are all those terms that got brought over, groups...
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  • Oh, yeah, that's right. Man, that ritual suffered the transition to 2e. The 1e version lasted forever and made the blood neutral in terms of vinculum (and used to be level 1 too). Maybe they wanted to avoid a hack where elders could just have underlings mail them reliquaries to bypass the blood restrictions, or maybe it seemed wrong that a low level power like that could circumvent vinculum, which are supposed to be a pretty big deal and not that easy to avoid ? Still doesn't seam that unbalanced considering an invictus oath can have a similar result. Now, it's basically a way to make glorified...
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  • Reliquary is always a good idea as it's a very handy ritual (the only limitation is it has an expiration date, but you could imagine a higher ranked ritual where that limitation doesn't exist). Even then, 50 years per BP dot is only a guideline. Like it's been said, holding off on human blood, not using disciplines too much could very well hold that back (how much is your own choice). Given that he's risen to power quickly and held it for long, though, I'd imagine he wasn't the type to hold back when he needed to.

    Plus, yes, a few decades of naptime is a good way to wind the clock...
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  • Well, that's one way to see it. To me, the similarities are way too important to see the oWoD and nWod (or CoD, but the 1e books are still labelled New WoD, so to me CoD is only 2e) as completely different games, and when 2e got released, most people I talked to about Vampire the Requiem Second Edition thought I was talking about Requiem, since to them, Requiem was the second edition of Masquerade. In many ways, the nWoD directly built on oWod elements. Vampire is the most ovious example where three clans out of 5 are direct editorial descendants of the oWoD clans, and many of the other clans...
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  • Yes, that was Apocalypse, and I understand the annoyance at the type of gamers who complain about how the NewWoD isn't like the OldWod, but I really wasn't saying that. Saying that werewolves wer nerfed between the two games is not a judgement on the quality of those games in this case (unless it's part of the connotation of the expression, but well). It is a judgement when it comes from said player who, at the table, liked to remind the GM and I (neither of us played Apocalypse) that Werewolves used to be so much better at fighting and had incredible regeneration and could hold crinos indefinitely,...
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  • I'm pretty sure you need 2e core for a few rules. It's nowhere near as blatant as 1e where the basic rules were only explained in the core book, but there are things that are referenced in Vampire 2e that can't be found in the book, like the foot and car chasing mechanics.

    And yeah, for the templates, while it seems they tried to have some balance in 1e (werewolves were pretty nerfed, to the dismay of at least on person I know), well except for the mages, 2e forgets about that, and I don't have much of a problem with it, it's like comparing apples and oranges. Mixed games have always...
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  • It really is up to you. One kind of objective reason would be that the immense amount of books that came out for Requiem are for the 1e system, so you can pretty much use them without worrying about compatibility issues. On the other hand, the difference in the systems aren't that big that you can't change minor things to make it fit 2e. All the stuff about the bloodlines is still valid if you use the 1e bloodline system instead of 2e with the boon thingie.

    Personally, my favourite system is a combination of the two editions. I love the little subtleties 2e introduced in the core...
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S. Brechen
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Last Activity: Yesterday, 06:06 PM
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