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  • Meianno Yuurei
    replied to Are the Dragon Blooded the good guys?
    I would not be surprised if the "contagious through even Fate" were to be somewhere in a book, probably 2e with its characteristic "also, fuck Sidereals" aplomb.

    Funny, I was just thinking there needs to be more evidence of Sidereals left in Creation. As it stands, it seems like it wants to do the Men in Black thing of "we're responsible for stopping a hundred apocalypses you have never heard of" as what makes them exciting and compelling, but then we never see any of it, so all we see is "they didn't see it coming" and "they made a guy...
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    Last edited by Meianno Yuurei; 08-18-2018, 07:54 AM.

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  • Meianno Yuurei
    replied to Are the Dragon Blooded the good guys?
    I desire to fill a cup with water. I cannot move the faucet. I can move the cup. Woe to me for I cannot move the faucet, for it is beyond my reach, unlike the cup, which I can affect. If only I could do something with the cup, that is not beyond my reach, to ensure the faucet is positioned over it to fill it with water. But woe, it is not possible for me, who can move the cup, to ensure the faucet fills it, because I cannot move the faucet. If only there were some way that I, who can leverage motion upon the cup, could ensure the faucet I cannot move would fill it with water. But this is an unsolvable...
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    Last edited by Meianno Yuurei; 08-17-2018, 08:04 PM.

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  • Meianno Yuurei
    replied to Are the Dragon Blooded the good guys?
    Lemme give a parallel.

    Aquaman is actually really damn strong. But you wouldn't know that if you only watched scenes where he wasn't strong enough and we needed Superman strength. You'd think his strength was a joke.

    2e never showed anything to build up Sidereal heat. It tries to do the "they're successful because of the thousands apocalypses you haven't heard of because they prevented them" but that doesn't work. And then they cut it down by punctuating too many things with "teehee they didn't see it isn't it ironic, like a traffic jam when you're already...
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    Last edited by Meianno Yuurei; 08-17-2018, 09:23 AM.

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  • Meianno Yuurei
    replied to Are the Dragon Blooded the good guys?
    That's fine. I'm tired of the person who apparently started the "the Sids can't be shown to be right about anything" trend. His authority no matter how fundamental he was to 1e design is rendered worthless by his decision to start saying "oh but it turns out it was a false dilemma all along because their powers don't actually work roflmao".

    If you're going to sabotage a player exalt type then don't be a fucking coward, be forthright about it. Tell front and goddamned center in Exalted the Sidereals, "Sidereals will always be chumped by the universe taking...
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    Last edited by Meianno Yuurei; 08-17-2018, 08:19 AM.

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  • Meianno Yuurei
    replied to Are the Dragon Blooded the good guys?
    Let me be the first to say then, fuck grabowski in the eye. XP that's like saying the secret service failed in their job because 9/11. Their job is the president. Other intelligence agencies are responsible for that sort of thing. Or that a doctor who amputated a leg too far gone to gangrene failed his Hippocratic oath; I saved the patient's life, his leg wasn't part of the deal. Better he can argue whether life with one leg is worth living because he's alive than be dead. One of these can be fixed.
    If he seriously argues that Creation being alive but lessened disproves the prophecy which...
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    Last edited by Meianno Yuurei; 08-17-2018, 07:50 AM.

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  • Meianno Yuurei
    replied to Are the Dragon Blooded the good guys?
    I really don't see how the prophecy is harmed. "But Creation was almost destroyed, twice!!!!!"
    And yet against all odds it survives.
    Almost as if that was its fate.
    As if it was destined to survive, lessened, but intact.
    Like a subtle hand guided heroes through chance and circumstance to where they needed to be in Creation's darkest hour to stand against the tide of darkness and protect Creation.

    Almost as if it were preordained that Creation would survive, lessened but alive, to see the Dawn of another age.

    But that wasn't what the prophecy...
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    Last edited by Meianno Yuurei; 08-17-2018, 07:31 AM.

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  • Meianno Yuurei
    replied to Are the Dragon Blooded the good guys?
    I think there's a diffference that's worth noting between "the Realm brutally suppresses dissidents and is generally not great unless you absolutely toe the line and cause no trouble in which case it's still not great but at least it's not great in the sense that seeing your wealth siphoned off to foreign overlords is not great as opposed to being brutally executed is not great", IE realistically 'evil' if you want to use that term, vs "the Realm has debauched parties where nobles loose summoned demons onto staff to rape and kill as said demons like because they're bored evil nobles,...
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  • Meianno Yuurei
    replied to Are the Dragon Blooded the good guys?
    You do you, whatever works for your game. I just assume the reason alchemicals escaped the fate everyone else suffered - kneecapped to ensure Solars won the footrace - is because they weren't deemed a threat due to seal of eight divinities....
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  • Meianno Yuurei
    replied to Are the Dragon Blooded the good guys?
    Thankfully these 2e assumptions are deaddeaddead in 3e. DBs as of WFHW get 5 aspect 5 favored, they only pay more for Evocations [which they use at a Celestial or Solar level] and spells, and the "wrong element surcharge" is gone, and the closest thing to it in 3e - the Aura keyword - is almost entirely missing from Bureaucracy with only one edge case [a bonus for Earth Aura making your organization incorruptible and absolutely loyal].

    Have I mentioned that 2e basically attempted character assassination on all non-Solar Exalts whether through incompetence or malice? 'Cause...
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    Last edited by Meianno Yuurei; 08-15-2018, 01:20 AM.

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  • Meianno Yuurei
    replied to 2e: Biggest problems fix ?
    ^ This, yes. 2e's theory of combat was "Everyone makes attacks and 99% of them are gonna miss anyway because they're just to deplete the mote pool of the target so that the final 1% can instantly splatter them". This resulted in the most boring game of pattycake ever.

    3e's theory of combat is kind of leaning into this; most attacks exist to shift the flow of combat mechanically. Even though you know just the same that the attack isn't going to "hit" in the sense of "it is not going to deal physical damage to their health levels" just the same as 90%...
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  • Yeah, it does seem kind of self-reinforcing in a way? "Obviously he would be murdered but this means obviously everyone would know he was murdered which means obviously everyone will know he was telling the truth QED the 2000 year secret is unraveled in a day by one marginally inquisitive Dragon-Blooded."

    Whereas exploiting the natural tendencies mentioned above by Isator Levi and giving a fateful nudge if he actually does start to make adequate ripples in the loom to be noticed and worth attention, such that he becomes more discredited and noone wants to listen to him,...
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  • Meianno Yuurei
    replied to Artifact Costs
    Paired blades like Courant and Galliard, the twin blades of Razor Dancer and Wise Steel or the twin Devil Casters suggested with Sirrush, or a set of five blades made specifically for a Circle, Fellowship, or Brotherhood, etc. Awesome.

    "I pumped out so many daiklaves today I didn't even bother naming them all": Meh.
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  • Meianno Yuurei
    replied to Are the Dragon Blooded the good guys?
    The number one thing to remember, RadioFreeDeath , is that extremely few people are ever evil 'for the lulz' unless they're morons (see: 2e Infernals from the Lost Chapters). A good 'evil' character should have reasons for their evil, even if they're terrible ones.

    A Lunar and her warband ravage the lands and burn the farms of villagers because she is denying ground to the Dragon-Blooded, undermining their regime and destabilizing them piece by piece, not because she's an an atavistic anarchist who thinks civilization bad and wipes her rear with poison ivy instead of toilet paper...
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  • Eh, the bronze faction can have plenty to be right about without 2e-based mass-breeding plans (thank all the wisdom of 3e that it made "mass-breed DBs!" not just impractical but impossible. Get a bunch of Terrestrial woman to put out 10,000 babies in a year and you have 10,000 mortal babies [and probably pissed off elemental demigoddesses]). Solars going to petty wars deploying terrible sorceries and weaponry that creates horrible widespread misery and death and leaves lands uninhabitable all because of their ego is plenty.
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  • Meianno Yuurei
    replied to Artifact Costs
    it's almost like most people complaining about 3e craft haven't even read it.
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  • Or found themselves on the receiving end of waves of ill fortune and discrediting events that are phenomenally improbable to have occurred by mere chance but are impossible to prove otherwise.
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  • Meianno Yuurei
    replied to Are the Dragon Blooded the good guys?
    It is my estimation that any Exalt type is permitted to be "the good guys" of a given narrative or story. The Solars will be the heroes in a Solar story and the mad tyrannical returning god-kings in a DB story.
    The Solars and Lunars have great power to change the world and oppose forces that would cause harm to those less empowered.
    The Sidereals work tirelessly to keep Creation moving towards what they may hope is a better future, capable of weaving fates to improve lives.
    The Dragon-Blooded can fight to defend those below them as well even if they lack the personal...
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  • For one thing it becomes cliche. The goodly drow rebel against his evil kin from the race that if you looked at PCs would seem to be entirely composed of good rebels against their evil kin who ostensibly exist Somewhere.

    For another it spawns stupid arguments of people trying to claim that the dragon blooded should have been interred in purity breeding baby factories and death camps by Solars for their own good, and they would happily go to this fate because they're all indoctrinated in this way, but indoctrination totes isn't brainwashing despite that it in all functional ways...
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    Last edited by Meianno Yuurei; 08-11-2018, 08:13 AM.

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  • 3e actually notes, in WFHW, that the immaculate philosophy mentions Sidereals conceptually by description as agents of Heaven seeking to protect Creation and the righteous order of the dragon blooded, though of course if said individual agents of heaven are seen conspiring with the anathema in which case those specific ones are individually anathema like a dark God that feasts on blood and carrion or the nearly unthinkable dragon blooded who falls to wickedness and begins consorting with demons and other anathema.

    So the answer is, they know that the guys with the pretty colored...
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  • The difference is that you seem to hold it as the default that every single DB should have been a brainwashed little slave to their Solar Masters. I think part of this is heavily the fact that 2e mechanics were absolute shit -- I usually define it like so:

    100% is the baseline capacity required to interact with the systems, other than "killing a dude".
    2e Solars have 100-120%.
    2e Lunars and Sidereals are in the 60-70% range. 2e DBs in the 30% range, Mortals down around 10%.

    As such of COURSE DBs look like utter trash who should be effortlessly twisted...
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Meianno Yuurei
Meianno Yuurei
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