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  • While I agree that at first glance Mage does present all of reality as subjective and that you can play the game that way, that doesn't have to be the case and indeed the general indication is it isn't.

    As Dataweaver says, there are things (cosmological constants) that are either beyond the reach of the Consensus or so deeply embedded as to seem beyond reach. I will freely admit that I prefer to use CCs as little as possible, but the very fact that they are in the game indicates that reality is more complicated than pure subjectivity.

    Furthermore, no one acts like they...
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  • I'm surprised it isn't higher.

    I will readily admit that "What most people believe/accept = Consensus" and is instantly reality is probably the easiest interpretation of how the core introduces the idea of Mage metaphysics, however it is not the only or even the most likely interpretation. The statement 'Consensus defines reality' is on about the same level as 'Every action has an equal and opposite reaction.' It is true but also vague enough that there is more than one way it could work out until you know more....
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  • Well hold on, there is no promise that everyone is equally right. Yes in Mage metaphysics belief reshapes reality but surprisingly there isn't any evidence (either for or against) that belief reshapes morality. Indeed, how would anyone even be able to tell? So it's not so much that all the factions are equally right, it's more that all the factions are convinced that they are right but don't actually know. In that regards the Nephandi are very much certain of their views (we think)....
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  • It might help you to consider the Nephandi as irreconcilably alien rather than irredeemably evil. From the outside they appear evil, that might not be the case from the inside. Mages can’t know that without becoming one and that’s a one way trip.

    That’s the thing with the Nephandi, they are the absolute that proves the reletavistic rule. While everyone else is arguing that morality might be subjective, they are the ones which show it may be very real. In many ways the Technocracy and Traditions can get so lost in the philosophical arguments that they (and we) lose track...
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  • As I recall, early on there was a lot of emphasis on the Etherites having a distinctly different origin than other Technocrats. That book that I can’t remember the name of was a prominent part of it. I suspect the point was to have them be former Technocrats in a really safe way. The union was faceless; they had a face.

    As both the union and the Etherites were fleshed out the division between the two became much easier to see. It’s at the point where the Etherites can include utopian, totalitarian, elitist tropes and still be very, very different from their former allies.
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  • Not really. If the Lysenko’s methods worked the Technocracy would have won already. Unfortunately for them, human reaction and belief is difficult to predict.

    Look at it this way, through control of the media and journals Lysenko could convince the cities and the universities (somewhat) but that’s not where the food was grown. For the farmers he was just forcing them to do something they didn’t think would work. No surprise then that it didn’t....
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  • Missing, no. Checked out, yes. You can already see it with the Shadow and the Psyche. They are both the person in question, with all the memories and identity, but they are expressed through different lenses. Specifically the two lenses that most resist Transcendence.

    The Avatar is likely to be one of the first aspects to check out as it is always less focused on regular life than on Ascension....
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    Last edited by Ramnesis; 12-21-2020, 11:14 AM.

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Ramnesis
Ramnesis
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Last Activity: Today, 10:22 PM
Joined: 11-05-2013
Location: New York
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