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  • Okay. A bit late to the party but here goes.

    You cannot and should not be able to buy Gnosis or Gifts. The Mana background (if you have it) should probably be liquidated and dumped into Gnosis though, since that only makes sense. Paths should stay as is, but considering as of W20 the Change usually happens around puberty the chances of said Garou having advanced terribly far along a Sorcerer's path are pretty low.

    Not surprising (I don't think) but I disagree. True Faith works perfectly fine as is in Werewolf. And we know from the books that there are and have been Garou...
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    Last edited by idpersona; Yesterday, 07:54 PM.

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  • idpersona
    replied to Mr. Pickles and the Wyrm
    Fair enough. And it's not usually easy to do....
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  • idpersona
    replied to Legendary Garou
    Saur Ops Specialist and The Laughing Stranger already added some of the follow up comments, but I figured I'd add my thoughts in addition.

    It is and it isn't (helpful I know). It is majorly a social aspect, but there are other parts to it. It does have to do with scaling mystical might, in the form of access to (arguably) more powerful Gifts (yes I know Gift scaling doesn't work exactly like that, with affinities being taken into account).
    But on top of that, higher Rank also comes with a reduced chance to Frenzy. Under normal circumstances the higher Rank Garou will generally...
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  • idpersona
    replied to Mr. Pickles and the Wyrm
    Possibly. Just speaking from my experience though, not as much. Since Renown takes time and stories to accrue, the players (for newer players) and characters tend to mature some as the storylines advance....
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  • idpersona
    replied to Legendary Garou
    I am specifically referring to Werewolf. Since there are no Ranks beyond 6 (nor does there need to be since there are only a handful of Garou even at that Rank at any given time), any powers above that level do whatever the story needs them to do.

    It is pointless to argue the specifics of whether Hakaken can win in a fight against Prince Inari, or how powerful they are in a direct conflict compared to Number Two. This is 100% based on the needs of the story, which is why I said at that power level everyone just has "plot powers".

    All we know is that beyond Rank...
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  • idpersona
    replied to Legendary Garou
    ...sort of. I believe the Spiral is implied to work that way, but there is no real system for it. And the actual normal-ish Renown system for advancing Rank is used for Spirals anyways.

    And the Nine-tails is something different altogether. She would have a theoretical Rank of 9, but beyond Rank 6, all power levels are more or less plot powers. Her first consort (Prince Inari) is a totem for example, so she is of that power level or beyond. Doesn't much matter. The last line of Saur's post is the important part:...
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    Last edited by idpersona; Yesterday, 12:44 AM.

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  • idpersona
    replied to Mr. Pickles and the Wyrm
    There is nothing wrong with that format, as long as your players understand what comes with advancing in Rank personality-wise. I've had some players that couldn't wrap their head around it and at Rank 2 were still trying to do the dumb things cubs do.

    That's actually kind of surprising to me, given how familiar you are with the game as a whole. Sorry to hear it....
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  • idpersona
    replied to Legendary Garou
    Not meaning to be sarcastic, but look up Golgol Fangs-First (Rage Across the Amazon or updated in Rage: Warriors of the Apocalypse) or Grimfang (and in Rage: WotA).
    I seem to remember a Rank 6 or two written up in Apocalypse as well. They aren't automatically more powerful than everyone else. They have the experience though (both lower and upper case "e"s) to back up their position. So they tend to have lots of stats at 4-5 and generally have a number of decent to good Fetishes. And their Rank means they can call on plenty of support Garou should the need arise. So Golgol isn't...
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  • idpersona
    replied to 5th Edition New Breeds
    I actually really like the idea of the Yeren being the bastardization of a long dead Fera breed. It would go a ways towards explaining why the Yeren have been so successful in developing Rank and Gifts (compared to the other Mockery Breeds)....
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  • idpersona
    replied to 5th Edition New Breeds
    So to sum up so far, we have:
    Koalas: Imagination of Gaia
    River Dolphins: Joy of Gaia
    Horses: Gaia's Celestial Heralds
    Falcons: Helios' Warriors
    Squirrels: Finders of the Lost

    I still want to write up Gorillas, but I'm drawing a blank on what their role should be. It has to be a specialized one that doesn't require them to go around the world. So I'm thinking something like the Nuwisha (Laughter) or the River Dolphins (Joy) or the Koalas (Imagination). Something vague that is important to Gaia's survival but can be hidden away until needed (probably after...
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  • I certainly wouldn't have each antagonist be from a different game line. That just seems overly complicated for no reason.

    If this is for a Werewolf game, I would keep the enemies within the boundaries of the Werewolf game line.
    Various types of Fomori with points spent carefully can be quite powerful (especially at the lower Autonomy levels). Maybe have a few corrupt Fera if that's more the path you want to go....
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  • idpersona
    replied to Amazon War Campaign
    Most welcome.


    So you have a couple of options here. I don't know that the forest itself should provide an alternative route for the Wyrm (this is much more likely for the native Fera). The Amazon rainforest itself should be innately fighting against the corrupting forces.

    -You can always have the Spirals traveling through tunnels under the Amazon. That's more in line with how they get around anyways. Perhaps they've brought/summoned a thunderwyrm or 2 which have been able to set up the tunnels for traveling and for ambushing and surprise Caern assaults. That's...
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  • idpersona
    replied to Kinslaying in my Game
    At that Caern/Sept/in that region. Especially on the frontier, a Sept's area of influence is probably pretty limited. If they head to a different area, the Kinslayer title may follow them (it should to reinforce the idea of Renown and consequences), but other Septs aren't necessarily going to want them dead.


    So given that there isn't a Garou government to appeal to, who exactly do you think is going to take the Talon's Caern? Like, this logic really makes no sense to me. I suppose the Gnawers could attempt it (though their motivation would be revenge, not punishing the Talons...
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  • idpersona
    replied to Enter the Squirrel
    I might limit the +1 to soak to animal form then. Crinos should remind unaffected. The + to dodge can either be rolled in to a Dex bonus or an added dif to hit them (since they're small) or both.


    Ah okay. There is also precedent for Spirit heritage which would make sense for this Fera. You can also decide that either they don't have Metis at all or that their Metis don't suffer deformities (like Kitsune). In any of these cases, their Metis can be treated as equals....
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  • idpersona
    replied to Enter the Squirrel
    I would.

    And they could have access to a background similar to the Ratkin's Freak Factor background which could cover some common innate spirit tricks from their Umbral heritage....
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  • idpersona
    replied to Kinslaying in my Game
    Lots of good stuff. Those lines in particular.

    For something you didn't plan out, the situation is really interesting and has tons of potential story seeds and paths....
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  • idpersona
    replied to Kinslaying in my Game
    Worldwide populations don't matter. Not even a little bit. Like I said, we don't know the Sept populations in play here. If the number of Garou at each Sept is even close to equal then neither has an easy victory and so war is unlikely to happen without dire consequences for both Septs. And in a setup like that, a pack of 5 outsider Garou can make a huge difference.

    As if the local Garou have the numbers to investigate every suspicious death personally. That aside, I think you use Erebus too liberally anyway (but that is also not pertinent to this conversation). It isn't an easy...
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  • idpersona
    replied to Kinslaying in my Game
    Okay, again...this sort of thing is completely within the purpose of Rite of Contrition (and again, as a start if the PC pack wanted to try and make ammends). It's right there is the writeup for the Rite (that was a fun annoying sentence).
    And Rite of the Hunt would be idiotic for the Gnawers to even try and attempt. You don't perform Rite of the Hunt on a pack of outsider Garou. Just from a numbers perspective that is going to end up with the Gnawer Sept losing a few members. Which would then leave them weaker if they were to attempt to go directly against other actual Sept (the Talons),...
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    Last edited by idpersona; 03-18-2017, 10:24 AM.

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  • idpersona
    replied to Kinslaying in my Game
    Oh, I just meant that if it works on that level it'll be (possibly) enough of a start for the pack themselves.

    There is zero chance of a Talon Alpha debasing themselves to perform the Rite to apologize to a Gnawer Caern.
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  • idpersona
    replied to Kinslaying in my Game
    Emphasis mine. This seems exactly the sort of time to use this Rite. That's the whole point.

    Now, I'm not saying this is all you have to do, but it is the first step. The Rite might (probably) have to be performed for each offended/wronged Garou, but that's a ST call. I would add that the apology must be sincere and the gift(s) must be well thought out. And the Bone Gnawers still might not accept it, but then that's on them.

    The pack messed up. They seemingly acknowledge that and are trying to figure out a path forward. This is the first step (not the only one) on that...
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idpersona
idpersona
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