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  • idpersona
    replied to Questions on Spirits
    I think it's supposed to be. If it allowed the Vampire to make real Fetishes (WtA), it would make that level (and Path) far too powerful in comparison to other Paths/Disciplines....
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  • No worries. It's just set up so that Weaver influence is what causes the higher Gauntlet ratings. Wyld and Wyrm have little to do with it. For the Ananasi, the heavier Weaver influence still leads to a higher Gauntlet. They just use that to their advantage for stepping sideways. Any other power based on a Gauntlet rating is still going to be higher difficulty....
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  • I agree with most of this, except for the last underlined (emphasis mine) sentence. That's not how Gauntlet ratings work. It just isn't. Plus, in this case it's already been stated that the Chantry is/was a Cearn. That should come along with a lower Gauntlet rating. Wyrm rituals have nothing to do with it.

    And obviously, this isn't too say that a Tremere with enough knowledge and time couldn't devise a Ritual (after all, Thaum is an excuse to allow anything) to accomplish a higher rating. Just that it won't happen merely as a side effect to the Tremere being there....
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  • idpersona
    replied to Questions on Spirits
    I would argue that those aren't Fetishes in the same respect that Werewolf uses the term. They're nothing alike except for the term used.

    Although that is probably because Vampire doesn't want to involve the full scope of Fetishes in WtA in one level of a semi-obscure path of blood magic....
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  • Eh. I agree in spirit, but by RAW, even this I'm unsure of. I think it depends on the way the spirit gets there I think. Correspondence summoning should circumvent the Wards since all the Wards do is prevent crossing that line. Once inside they do nothing. So if you can "jump" around them, you should be fine.
    This also means the couple of moon bridge jump Gifts should work. But this is probably a crossover problem at it's core since Vampire doesn't normally deal in teleporting....
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  • Nothing I could find in V20 said that the Wards prevent powers from being used across the Ward. So while it might be thematic to run them that way, it doesn't seem to be RAW (and so Jam Tech and Gremlins are fair use). By all means, if the Wards are expanded on someplace else to allow them to function like that, let me know (I've no issue with being wrong, it happens)....
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  • Ah okay. then on the Wards front I wouldn't worry too much about the systems from Vampire. You can have the wards block their way with a difficult Willpower roll (say 8 or 9) but allow them to push passed if they want and just eat the damage of it (which in this case I probably would upgrade to Agg). Or maybe just have the Wards to 3-4 levels of Agg, "soaked" by using Willpower. That would set up a dynamic that doesn't play to Garou's innate strengths but would also allow them to continue with the story (albeit hurt) even if they don't roll well on that single roll....
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  • Haha. Fair enough. Though I'd almost say that that is a PC thing and not Garou specific.

    Curious: what Rank (and I suppose Breed/Auspice/Tribe) are your Garou PCs?

    In the end, just set whatever defenses you need to make the story interesting. I mean: if the PCs just can't enter because of Wards, that will make for a boring story....
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    Last edited by idpersona; 09-25-2017, 02:54 PM.

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  • So echoing above, just have the Wards affect the Umbra. Vampire barely acknowledges the spirit worlds so you never really get clarifications for them. And as Aleph said, the Willpower roll is the big thing. The damage isn't (even if it were Agg, Garou would scoff at the damage). I see no reason to upgrade the damage to Agg.

    In prior editions the Wards were completely pathetic. Now at least they might be unpassable based on the Willpower roll adjustment.

    Edit: Why are there so many Garou/Tremere threads lately?
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    Last edited by idpersona; 09-25-2017, 12:35 PM.

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  • I agree on that completely.

    But it is a less than helpful response on the forums to not offer information on the basis that it would allow the character to over-prepare. I think the setup is incredibly flawed to start with. But that's neither here nor there since it's the setting that's been presented to think through....
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  • The time in rounds is specifically for fighting. Out of combat, the Garou can hold their breaths for between 4 and 30 minutes, based on their Stamina. Crinos probably does use more air, but that actually doesn't matter because the times are specifically based off of Stamina.
    Oh and all of this ignores the mildly common Gift Create Element that will make plenty of low cost air to survive in the short term.


    This I actually agree completely with.


    Nope. That would be the rating for a Technocracy node (at a 9). Tremere chantries aren't going to have nearly...
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  • Maybe. Probably. The whole situation is dangerous. There is a halfway decent chance the area is warded vs spirits which might make it significantly safer (not that the Garou would necessarily know). But if the victim Garou doesn't have specific Gifts that may help (which seems to be the default assumption here for some reason), you have to fall back on innate abilities and hope for the best. Obviously getting caught in a trap is not ideal.

    And there are more than a few Gifts which would lessen the dangerousness of Sidestepping. But the consensus seems to be that Garou in this scenario...
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    Last edited by idpersona; 09-23-2017, 12:45 AM.

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  • This might sound rude, but if this if how you'd rule it then I would say you would be running the Werewolf game wrong. This is 1-3 Agg a turn. Think of it similarly to fire or sunlight damage compared to exposure. That's certainly not fun. But completely survivable. First action is likely to be sidestepping and escaping the environment entirely. Sidestepping would also completely clear the silver from the Garou.

    There are easily a dozen different Gifts that would help in the presented situations. So while all Garou don't have all Gifts, all Garou do have useful Gifts. For the silver...
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  • And at that point, you'd have spent these resources and time to do 1 Agg to a single Garou before they switch to aimed shots with a bite attack for a similar difficulty to clawing and bypass the armor completely. This just seems like a lot of effort to maybe inflict 1 or 2 Agg against an assault of Garou imo.

    And the protected ghoul is still dead either way, not that it really matters to anyone....
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    Last edited by idpersona; 09-21-2017, 06:37 PM.

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  • It's not a matter of observing the Werewolf that changes its build imo. Aside from me disagreeing with how simplistic you appear to view Werewolf tactics, the scenario presented is worth taking into account. The Chantry almost certainly has already been assaulted. Which means the Garou are going to be aware of silver armor (still an incredible waste of resources) and so them planning around should be perfectly logical. Not some weird mid-assault rebuild.

    Garou (well any above Rank 1, which should cover ones involved in this sort of thing) are going to be used to both: 1) Enemies they...
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  • The Silver armor thing has been thoroughly covered I think, so skipping to this bit:

    A) I think this is just wholly incorrect. Given that plenty of Garou are fine with the idea of using guns, modern bows are perfectly within the realm of use thematically.
    B) None of the mechanics of bow trajectory need apply. Chances are the bow and/or the arrows will be fetishes or talens, which makes the discussion moot I think. If I remember right, Slaggers explode and incinerate everything in like a 5 foot radius. Makes the argument of what a normal arrow can pass thought kind of pointless....
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idpersona
idpersona
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