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[Paradim]

I've always felt that... Humanity has a massive advantage over a lot of monsters, in that a lot of monsters NEED humanity for their survival. Vampires need blood. Werewolves need families. Mages come from humanity (if Mages don't count as "human" for this conversation). Even Beasts need to feast.

But humanity... Humanity only needs to be lucky once, time and time again. It doesn't matter if a werewolf can kill a hundred people, just one in the right place, at the right time, can end it.

And so if there is a grand conflict... Ultimately, it is a war of attrition....

[Paradim]

When I realized that potential scenario... That was the moment I fell in love with Beast: The Primordial....

[Paradim]

"Fuck you, I'm a dragon!" -the response from a Beast to a very terrified and confused vampire after the building was suddenly set on fire....

[Paradim]

I'm afraid I don't see that as being very relevant towards my criticism. It was a change made that required severe rewriting of important sections of the book that introduced problems with the very narrative that was also trying to be presented.

Also, I would argue that presenting ambiguity towards certain topics, such as origins, can be helpful for providing Storytellers options, it is important to remember that there is an opportunity cost that exists. In this instance, it would be the cost of providing the structure of shared experiences and common understanding among Beasts....

[Paradim]

My criticism of the Devouring is that the concept as described in the book fundamentally betrays and cripples the themes presented as what Beast: The Primordial is all about. The book presents that being a Beast, in the section titled Devouring, is an affliction put upon her. I interpret it as a very problematic section with some very powerful assertions, such as "Anyone can become a Beast." which is the very first line you see for the section, and further says "One day, though, a real Beast finds her.", which has serious implications to consider. That's further reinforced...

[Paradim]

I'm hoping so!

Some of the changes, I don't mind at all. I just don't think there was any time available to actually make the changes fully fleshed out and an integrated part of the game. So they feel tacked on. At least for Heroes and "Teaching Lessons".

I'm not going to hold out much hope for the Devouring, though, because I absolutely loathe it as a concept and can't see how you guys can improve that in my eyes beyond stripping it out of the game. Which I know you guys can't really go back on and anyways, I'm doing that for any Beast games I run rega...

[Paradim]

Regarding "Teaching Lessons" and some of the stuff about Heroes...

It was a rather late game development shift during the Kickstarter that the developer pretty much put "Teaching Lessons" into the game and reworked that Heroes weren't created by Beasts. Despite this, there are still artifacts in the game that make explicit mention of Beasts creating Heroes by their activities and there's a lot of places where "Teaching Lessons" just don't mesh well with what else is presented.

My point being, if an objection is "This doesn't fit very...

[Paradim]

A Humanity Trait would probably undermine Beast significantly. The game doesn't need a mechanic to say to players that doing bad things to people is probably immoral or unethical.

Having no trait like Integrity or Humanity speaks volumes about Beast due to the absence. But it doesn't forbid Beasts from having their own morals or ethics. They can still feel bad or guilty about things they've done, or refuse to do particular actions because they believe or think or feel that it's wrong to do it....

[Paradim]

It could be argued that Heroes profit greatly, actually... Heroes gain supernatural power from killing Beasts. And at some point in their career of killing monster after monster, they're rewarded with extended life.

A Hero can effectively continue living for centuries, stepping over the corpses of Beasts to do so.

Also, regarding Slumber, I think it says something that the Anathema of Heroes are at their utmost powerful art the time a Beast is at their utmost weakest. High Satiety empowers Anathema, and when Slumbering at 10, Beasts have no access to their powers to...

[Paradim]

Isn't there an example of the Hunger for Prey being able to feed from hunting deer if low enough? Yes, it involves killing a living creature, but hunting deer is a long time practice of people and in some areas, practically required for road safety.

And yet, there are Heroes who would kill that Beast regardless....

[Paradim]

Not specifically on Primordial Pathways that I can discern. There's a good bit of discussion on Chambers, though, which is particularly related....

[Paradim]

A Beast can collapse one of their own chambers, but the book presents it as a thing you do to protect yourself. Keep in mind, the Chambers of your Lair are pretty much your home and are meant to be representative of what you hunt and stalk in.

It seems counterproductive to collapse a Chamber for no real reason.

What are the reasons to willingly give up a Chamber?

Legitimate question, that, to anyone interested in engaging with it. From what I understand, the only mechanical benefit a Chamber provides is the environmental Tilt it has. But that doesn't mean...

[Paradim]

Man... I really like the description of Chambers a lot more in Building a Legend. But I'm having a lot of trouble meshing what BaL talks about and the actual rules in the game.

For example, there is a lot of talk about how wild Chambers are great resources that Beasts will fight over and contest each other in order to procure. It gives a great sense of conflict between Beasts, emphasizes territorial behavior which I like and I like the idea of Beasts wanting to hoard Chambers....

But I don't really see how they can do that. Beasts are restricted in how many Chambers...

[Paradim]

And done. Glad to assist with that. ^.^...

[Paradim]

Page 35 - - under Invading Heroes and Horrors says... "Many Heroes have ways of entering a Beast’s Lair — and not just the Lair of the Beast that made them what they are."

Where Beasts causing Heroes isn't in place anymore.

[Paradim]

Reading it and finding it rather interesting so far!

But I'm wondering if this might be a mistake? Page 35, under Invading Heroes and Horrors says... "Many Heroes have ways of entering a Beast’s Lair — and not just the Lair of the Beast that made them what they are."

I thought Beast moved away from Beasts causing Heroes to be? Did I misunderstand something?

[Paradim]

... Wait what? Now you're talking about artifacts? And correlating Lunars and Moonsilver as if they're the same thing? And arguing statements from previous Developers as if Minton and Vance have no say?

Okay, look Sunder the Gold, I'm good with talking about speculation, about theorizing and debating thematics, and even about discussing preferences with what either of us would like to see in the future.

I don't see you asking for opinions here. If you were, I don't think you'd be replying with assertions about Holden and Morke. That's just a tactic to beat someone down....

[Paradim]

Well... "rely more on" is not an exclusionary statement, just an indicator of preference. So, there has been established precedence for Lunars being able to use their powers regarding objects which are non-magical in nature.

I think there's a big question that has to be considered as to what the impact of these clones is meant to be. What's the purpose being accomplished? Are they distractions? Can they use similar powers as the Lunar themself?

Maybe the categorical capability of making clones can have different effects when used for different purposes? For...

[Paradim]

I'm a bit confused by some of the premises of the OP...

Is the assertion that Lunars gave no Glorious Solar Saber Charm specifically a reference to the concept of creating weapons? Because the purpose of Glorious Solar Saber is to give you an artifact quality weapon to use, if I remember right, and Lunars did have an equivalent with Claws of the Silver Moon which grants the Lunar artifact equivalent weapons from all of their unarmed options.

If it's specifically about creating a handheld weapon... Didn't Lunars have a Charm that lets them create weaponry from their...