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  • Iron Phoenix
    replied to Ask the Devs
    Thanks for taking the time to answer my previous questions, Robert. If you're feeling brave, our group is trying to understand how the Martial Arts Exclusion Principle is supposed to work. That's this blurb of text on page 426:

    "In short—Martial Arts Charms are not compatible with Brawl, or any other combat Ability, unless they explicitly state otherwise. A bare-handed attack cannot benefit from both the maiming precision of Snake style’s Crippling Pressure-Point Strike and the devastating force of the Heaven Thunder Hammer; wielding twin blades in the katas of Steel Devil...
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  • Iron Phoenix
    replied to Ask the Devs
    Dodge has a lot of interactions and I want to make sure I'm understanding them correctly. So I apologize for the number of questions, but they could all be ruled differently.

    1) How is Unbowed Willow Meditation supposed to work? The qualifier is if the Exalt successfully dodges a decisive attack without using a Charm. Does that mean reflexive Charms? I'll give some scenarios...

    1a) I have +1 Evasion from Silver-Voiced Nightingale Style as a scene-long effect. Someone attacks me with a decisive, and misses. Does Unbowed Willow Meditation trigger?
    1b) I have +1 Evasion...
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  • Iron Phoenix
    replied to Healing Crippling Damage for Dummies
    Since Wholeness-Restoring Meditation is a Solar Charm that would take 3 months to restore a lost limb, I'm going to guess that growing another leg isn't that common in Creation. You could definitely investigate a sorcerous working or someone with high Craft skill to get you a replacement. The other option would be to head out to the Wyld and try to strike up a bargain with a raksha, although the result might be interesting.
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  • Iron Phoenix
    replied to The Onyx Rolls of Glorious Exalts
    This is a Dawn caste I'll be playing in an upcoming game. I haven't decided on the name or backstory yet, so I'll post the character sheet and focus on the mechanics. Warning: I'm a dirty min/maxer.


    Dawn Caste

    Physical Attributes
    Strength: 1
    Dexterity: 5
    Stamina: 1

    Social Attributes
    Charisma: 5
    Manipulation: 1
    Appearance: 5

    Mental Attributes
    Perception: 2
    Intelligence: 2
    Wits: 5

    Caste Abilities
    Archery 0
    Awareness 5
    Brawl 1
    Dodge 5 (Supernal)
    ...
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  • Iron Phoenix
    replied to Ask the Devs
    Bump so it doesn't get lost....
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  • Iron Phoenix
    replied to Ask the Devs
    Thanks for taking the time to answer all of these, Robert. I had a few questions surrounding social influence in combat with Silver-Voiced Nightingale Style and Righteous Devil Style, since that's what our group will be playing soon.

    1) Under the rules for Retrying Social Actions, it states that "Inspire: You must wait until the scene has ended to retry an inspire action." Does that apply to all Inspire actions, or the same Inspire action that I attempted? Let's say that I first attempt to inspire calm in my opponent, to convince them to stop fighting and talk to me. If...
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    Last edited by Iron Phoenix; 07-18-2017, 07:46 PM.

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  • Iron Phoenix
    replied to Has anyone used Steel Devil Style?
    I should also probably amend that to "Is it as terrible against high DV opponents as I think it is?" If we assume most games make it to at least E2, and we also assume you buy 5 Dex if you're going to run SDS (you really need your dice pool to be as big as possible for the style to work), then your offhand charge capacity is 9, and goes up every time you crash someone. Then every single time you land DAT you're adding 9 pre-soak damage, and every time you land TAT you're adding 14 pre-soak damage. That's probably the highest potential Withering damage output in the game.

    ...
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  • Iron Phoenix
    replied to Has anyone used Steel Devil Style?
    That's essentially what I'm afraid of. The bookkeeping aspect of offhand charge aside, you also have to intentionally nerf yourself to use it. You're taking 2+ Initiative from your Withering attacks that you would have used and then shifting it to your weapon. That means you go later in the round, potentially letting your opponent act first, and are closer to Initiative Crash and being unable to effectively defend yourself (losing Hardness and any Perilous Charms can hurt).

    Granted, it is really solid damage once you build up - if you land a TAT with 5 dex and, say, 7 offhand charge,...
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  • Iron Phoenix
    replied to Ask a question, get an answer
    1) Yes, a decisive attack roll is still required for the disarm gambit. In the event of a miss, the character loses 5 Initiative (1 Initiative for missing a Decisive attack, and 4 Initiative for attempting a grapple gambit). In the event of a success, the weapon is disarmed, and the character loses 4 Initiative (the difficulty of the grapple gambit, plus one). Iron Lotus Unfurling is the counterattack, and Sonic Slash is a reflexive charm that creates a new attack which would benefit from the onslaught of the previous counterattack.

    2) The "martial arts exclusion principle",...
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  • Iron Phoenix
    replied to Has anyone used Steel Devil Style?
    Short swords work if you want the accuracy from a light weapon, but not if you want to splash Crane. You have to take the hook swords to splash Crane, or if you want the +1 Defense from using a medium artifact weapon....
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  • Iron Phoenix
    replied to Has anyone used Steel Devil Style?
    It's as much the fault of the players as it is the ST. All of us in my playgroup enjoy crunch/character optimization and even characters who are not combat-specialized rarely make it to the table without 5 Dex + 5 Ability + 1 specialty. In the game I was just running, even the supernal Lore Twilight, who had the least amount of combat investment, showed up to the table with Archery, Melee, and Martial Arts (White Reaper Style). Yes, 5 Dex, 5 Archery, 4 dots in Melee and 4 dots in Martial Arts.

    I tried battle groups. The supernal Athletics Zenith with F&SS and LTA killed them....
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  • Iron Phoenix
    replied to Has anyone used Steel Devil Style?
    I actually think all of those MA styles are more powerful out of the box than Steel Devil Style. Solar Thrown definitely has issues this edition, so I won't argue there. However, I hadn't considered Stealth. That's the bit of tech I was missing, since Triple Attack Technique would be fantastic when compared against Defense 0 from an Ambush. Thanks.

    It's a bit weird for the stealth trope (An assassin leaps from the shadows to kill you! He's using...paired hook swords?) compared to Ebon Shadow Style or Solar Thrown, but mechanically I think that would definitely work well....
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  • Iron Phoenix
    replied to Has anyone used Steel Devil Style?
    I didn't miss the earlier discussions. You yourself didn't have much to say in defense of the style in this thread: http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/m...is-steel-devil

    You've also stated in other threads that the character is a supernal Sail character with more Sail charms than combat charms. That tells me that, most likely, you're playing in a much lower-powered campaign than the ones my group likes to run/play in. There's nothing wrong with that, and if your table is having fun, then more power to you. If I'm wrong about the style and it has the...
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  • Iron Phoenix
    replied to Has anyone used Steel Devil Style?
    Already did that search before I made the thread. Most tables don't consist of a ST running for a single player, so even if you haven't played a Steel Devil Style character personally, I'd expect some people to chime in and say "I haven't played it, but someone in my group has, and this is what we've seen so far..." and that hasn't happened.



    Great. That's what I'm looking for. Can you share your gameplay experiences with the style, as well as what types of opponents that character has done well against, and what opponents that character has had difficulties...
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  • Iron Phoenix
    replied to Has anyone used Steel Devil Style?
    So what I'm gathering so far is:

    1) No, nobody has played a PC in a game using Steel Devil Style. (This kind of reinforces my point. People aren't finding it cool/good enough to take it.)
    2) Outside of Lanaya's suggestion to take Crane Style with it, nobody has ideas how to make it work besides "pair up with Onslaught buddies."

    I was hoping there was something inside the style that I misunderstood or overlooked that made it better than my base assumptions, but based on the responses here, that doesn't seem to be the case.
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  • Iron Phoenix
    replied to Has anyone used Steel Devil Style?
    Falling Hammer Strike is a great Charm, but there are enough abilities in the game that allow you to ignore penalties to your Defense that even a Brawl swim buddy isn't always going to be enough to make your build viable. Single Point Shining into the Void Style exists, too, and also works great with a Brawl friend, while being much more viable solo.

    The only two things I see going for Steel Devil Style is 9 Parry, and +2 on Clash attacks from paired weapons. That might be the only viable way to play the style - delay until your opponent attacks, then Clash with Double Attack Technique....
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  • Iron Phoenix
    replied to Has anyone used Steel Devil Style?
    Assume all Exalts have 5 Dexterity + 5 (Relevant Ability) + Specialty. That puts Evasion/Parry at 6 by default. Now, with that as the base:

    Crane Style Martial Artist using a Hook Sword (+1 Defense) in Crane Style Form (+1 Parry) using Full Defense (+2 Defense, no Initiative cost) is Parry 10.
    Steel Devil Style Martial Artist using paired Hook Swords (+1 Defense) in Dual-Slaying Stance (+2 Parry) is Parry 9.
    Ebon Shadow Style/Black Claw Style/Silver-Voiced Nightingale Style Martial Artist using the Form Charm (+1 Defense/Evasion) with Fourfold Shiver Binding (+1 Evasion)...
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  • Iron Phoenix
    started a topic Has anyone used Steel Devil Style?

    Has anyone used Steel Devil Style?

    I'm trying to understand why anyone would ever pick this Martial Art. It relies entirely upon beating the enemy's Defense multiple times. This makes it great for mortal-slaying, as an Exalt with 5 Dex + 5 MA + 1 specialty + 5 accuracy with paired artifact short swords can easily wrap around Defense 2 or Defense 3 multiple times. I don't see how it's ever going to be good against another Exalt who can easily have a Defense anywhere between 5 and 9 before an Excellency. 16 dice just doesn't let you wrap around against that unless you roll exceptionally well, so you're throwing motes away on Double...
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  • Iron Phoenix
    replied to Ask the Devs
    Terrifying Battle Shriek in Silver-Voiced Nightingale Style has a Mastery effect of this:

    Mastery: An enemy who yields to the Nightingale’s influence and retreats or cowers from her loses Initiative equal to her (Charisma/2). She does not gain this Initiative.

    My new character's Charisma will be 5, so does my opponent lose 2 Initiative or 3 Initiative? The Charm does not specify which direction to round.

    Another question related to the same Charm...

    The martial artist rolls (Charisma + Performance) to intimidate a single enemy. A successful influence...
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    Last edited by Iron Phoenix; 07-16-2017, 02:55 AM.

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Iron Phoenix
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