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  • OK; using those words purely to evoke fictional archetypes, no moral judgments really intended (I assume that it would be forbidden and corrupt in the eyes of Heaven, or the Immaculate Philosophy and other such in setting actors, of course!).

    But anyway, I guess the substance of my comment was a bit in agreement with your suggestion that having a power that simply granting traits like this "(O)f course, cuts things out of the story." and that it would be more interesting and organic for Infernals to have a generalized set of powers they could use to raise a mortal to high...
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  • Well, I mean, I guess that the setting does and should shy away from declaring any set of characters evil (and particularly in some sense of having an "elemental" or "essential" evil) but that does not mean that they are prohibited from writing groups of characters - the Guild, the Realm, Nemissaries, the Fair Folk - that some set of their audience would view as "evil". Though I don't know what that really has to do with my comment anyway tbh.
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  • Hmm... I guess folks could dispute that. Though sure, I wouldn't really suggest making them take inspiration from Infernals Chapter 1 and 2, but cos they suck.



    Hmm... There are Exalted whose powers include working under restrictions and ritual requirements. Sidereals do for'ex, and doesn't make them Pattern Spiders or Celestial Gods....
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  • Hmm... If I really analyze it, I get the inspiration for the magic existing; Infernals are about taking on demon powers to infuse into Exalted Charms (in the same manner that Dragonblooded infuse elemental power or Sidereals fate power and so on). Demons or somewhat analoguous beings like jinns, in folk stories / myths are often bound to constrain their vast powers to perform wishes, in exchange for bargains.

    So I think that's the thematic base, but there needs to be some thought in 3e about much this actually works. As it is, I'm not sure it really works that well. 2e Infernals aren't...
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  • Ah, blast from the past there....
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  • Ghosthead
    replied to Making a setting without Yu-shan
    Caveat: I like the quality of Exalted's gods that they kind of are just godly, and gain status and wealth from worship (Ambrosia) and some Essence, but aren't like these sort of Discworld like gods where they're composed of and really gain lots of their being from worship, and if it gets sufficiently low they become sort of ghost gods.

    This is a personal take - the Discworld-y kind of idea of gods almost "belief vampires" strays a bit too much into the idea that gods and religion are fundamentally constructs of human faith and belief, where their power and meaning derives...
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  • Ghosthead
    replied to Ask a question, get an answer
    As a complete aside, seems like kind of an amusing thing that bronze and stone and so on cultures might end up facing faeries who shape themselves to be vast, muscular giants, soaking damage, while iron cultures tend to face faeries who avoid soaking attacks and so have your small, nimble, graceful, elven fairies who are all about the dodge and parry. Ogres and frost giants to fae gentry.
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  • This gets us into that fascinating argument of James Scott's, where he's arguing that Southeast Asia has this "Zomia" hill-zone where you effectively have refugees from civilization (this Southeast Asian Indianized-Buddhist sophisticated agrarian state of the Khmer Empire, and parallels in Myanmar) fleeing to the hills and making up new identities which are kind of constructed, and where everything in their culture is, to resist power and coercion (and he's arguing they have anti-literacy as a tradition of passive resistance against tax-gathering states and the like).

    And...
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  • Hmm... Kind of less specifically on the Skywalker example, but just because I'm kind of inclined to pick (perhaps slightly unfairly) at the slightly less than typical setup there. History, and like, most of Creation as I'd guess, is mostly not "I live on a ranch with my adoptive mum & dad and never so much as see anyone else" and more "I live in a village with a bunch of other folk, and we have no lords... but occasionally people from a nearby village try and kill us all, or else if that's not happening, we try and kill them instead" or "The same, but with overlords,...
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  • NewK, subjectively I have the impression that in the noughts, at the time, there was a lot of zeigeisty enthusiasm on Rpg.net for settings which talked about how the inevitable consequences of frequent, available, accessible, reliable magic were some form of modernization or even "more advanced than modern" society (up to and including "magical singularity").

    (Which idea Exalted perhaps was influential on, as I do think it was deeply influential on RPG settings in the noughts!).

    I think this has sort of started to wane a bit by the time DotFA came...
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  • Yeah, I may be underselling the raw powah of some SF characters here (particularly their "stuff I can do only in cutscenes and OVA!") and also there could be other matchups in that analogic frame that would better illustrate the point. General point being that some crossovers do things to the worlds being crossed over to kind of "balance" them, while ExVWoD really doesn't - it's very much "The Exalted against the entire World of Darkness" and not "Exalted meets World of Darkness".

    (The latter being a thing which Holden could've written but I...
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  • As I kind of understand it, it's written on the assumption that the Exalted are fully the Exalted in their power, and the World Of Darkness things are fully what they are. And the Exalted are limited by slow Essence mote regeneration.

    Then the default play mode that Holden envisoned, for Solar Exalted, which I think he described, was something like - "They gather power somewhat slowly, then unleash a badass denouement on a local bunch of World of Darkness supernaturals running a local scene, then they go to ground again. Rinse and repeat.".

    So if that's what...
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  • Put that way, IAM sounds more like GPT3(+Siri+Google) than internet.

    (On a tangent, GPT3 and this discussion has made me think again about an old post of mine on here in where we discussed constructed intelligences in Exalted, where I thought that they owed a lot to the assumptions of early to mid 20th century sci-fi about what would be easy and hard - that matching basic sentience and sapience to a roughly human level would be easy, but exceeding it from then on would be hard. IAM has a little of that quality perhaps, in that it is a little reminiscent of something like Ship's Computer...
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  • Interesting to see the process. IAM always seemed a bit to me like, "Well, of course the First Age would have omnipresent AI? They've alluded to it already with Icemind and Eyem". As for calling the thing IAM, it seems like a logical extrapolation of Eyem plus a playful allusion to self-awareness and Descartes ("I think therefore I am").

    (As to the Biblical dimension, well, anime and sci-fi tends to steal compulsively from Kabbalah and Catholic theology and such - Zohar Modifider, Plane of Briah, Yesod, Lance of Longinus, Deus, Atsiluth Eternal. And I look upon...
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  • Well, I think there's always some common ground!

    I guess to refocus, I'm more in this thread (where I'm on the topic you were interested in me expanding on), of the feeling that it was not a good choice for Exalted: the Sidereals to deemphasize in Sidereals' decision point in the Usurpation their empathy for fellow human suffering, their moral conscience, and really, the original ostensible reasons that inspired the Usurpation in what we learn first about it in the first edition core ("The benevolence of the Realm's rulers turned to tyranny and peace turned to civil war.")....
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  • Hmm... Lots to think about there. I don't really have a precise answer. For a mostly incoherent one:

    I haven't read Le Carre so it's hard for me to comment deeper on how Smiley works as a fictional character within Le Carre's fictional mode (and even whether he works at all!). I don't think Smiley would be an uninteresting character if he were balancing the preservation of the state with those moral drives and preference within himself... But I do think he would be uninteresting (and perhaps morally banal) if he were wholly unconcerned with whether any particular action he ordered...
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  • Hmm... I think at that point we're talking about fairly subjective stuff that is hard to distinguish from the mood of the Exalted community. It's not like Black Ice Shadow was written out between editions, for'ex. And I remember a lot of complaints about too many Outside Fate things written by Neph in late 1e.

    Late 2e fan community (at around a little earlier in years than my post count here ) was kind of "all in" for things really being *about* the "Solaroids", and Celestials and Terrestrials being somewhat fatally inept in general at doing without the Solars,...
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  • Levi, Not a word choice I'd given a great of reflection to! However, 'weird' in the sense of "subjectively seems a bad and unusual choice" (in the sense that human character with moral drives are in the general case more interesting and sympathetic), not in the sense of "evokes that which is unsettling, strange, eldritch &c.".
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  • I don't think so. 1e. Exalted: The Sidereals. Sidebar, the Blind Prophets, page 64. That tended to suggest that the Prophecy was somewhat banjaxxed by Sidereal blindness to Outside of Fate thingies... Though maybe 2e up'ed it by stating it was no better than throwing darts while wearing a blindfold or something, and massively extending the amount of things which were Outside of Fate, I don't know.

    It's a great book but there's still lots of room for improvement and some missteps. (Don't get me started on how the book led to the whole meme of "You think the Sidereals arranged...
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  • Ghosthead
    replied to Your Anime Inspirations list
    Hmm... I don't have many current ones!

    This is not to say that I don't like modern anime, it's more a question of a shift in what anime are *about*. Anime that I find suitable for Exalted are very "High and Low"; they're characterised by being about people who are emotionally mature adults, or children who've had to grow up fast, who live in a society that is characterized by unjust social problems and they've faced and face challenging circumstances and choices, they're often marginal or outside society in some way (orphans, vagabonds, political rebels), but still ultimately...
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Ghosthead
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