Paradox Interactive (the Crusader Kings people, not the Conan/Mutant Chronicles ones) buy the White Wolf properties [Merged x10]

[Delta]

Well, seen the video and the Q&A. The lead storyteller is such a fanboy, he's so cute! Well, it seems the intellectual property is in way better hands than CCP.

That's what I've been telling from day 1. Paradox has grown massively, but it's still a company run by first-degree nerds for first-degree nerds, they wouldn't have done this if they didn't have passionate plans about what to do with WoD.

[Kristviljan]

Well, Blood Potency was the next best thing to happen to Kindred after Gehenna, so...

If you're referring to the QnA session in germany then they said that generation is a core concept of vampire in WOD and so it's going to stay, but they did say that there are other aspects of the vampiric condition that we don't know about that might lead to a sort of circumvention of generation for a few vampires.

They're looking to add alternatives to the whole Caine is the first vampire thing so that it doesn't come across as the only truth available. Also they're looking to make sure that mechanics in the game, like generation, don't point to one specific origin of vampires as the true origin, as generation does today.

[Gmforpowergamers]

Our Saturday games are the only times some of us talk. So we talk about news from around the world and our local politics. The normal transistion is "well I think it's time to go into our fantasy world that is a much brighter world of darkness then we are in..."

[PMárk]

I'm not saying things are absolutely bleak, but you get my drift... In a neoplatonic WoD, the material is bound to suck big time. The question, and here WoD has always played with our heads, is if our world is also neoplatonic. :P

Edit: Also, it might be helpful if you see Good and Evil in WoD, not as two different, distinct entities. Like darkness and light, evil is the absence of good.

For example, it's not giving in to Monstrosity that makes Vampires evil, it's the abandonment of Humanity that does that. Do good people care enough to keep up the fight, hold on to their beliefs? Then there's good left in the world, but the monsters will do everything so that they either give up or go away...

After all, who can say if it's truly evil to just stop caring, keep your head down, just go to work, pay the bills and hope someone does the right thing for you?

I'm not sure we have a disagreement here. In fact, I think if we can sit down and talk through this we would find out that both of us are speaking about largely the same things. I also think the world is often bleak (aside from the fact that mass media is heavily biased to negative news) and the WoD is much-much worse, BUT if everything is already lost and nothing left worth fighting, then why care? Note that I think in some gamelines this is a more important question than in others. Like Vampire is more about the inner struggle with the beast and Mage is more about bigger-scope questions. However both have the other end of the spectrum in them, of course. This is why I didn't particularly liked the revised-era mage setting (controversely, I LIKE the street-level stories and orphans very much). It was just too much post-apocalyptic for me from the tradition's perspective.

Some highlights to clarify my thoughts (I hope I don't break forum rules):

From W20: Of course, not everyone is content to go blindly into Hell. Some people rebel. They stand up and march in the streets. They give their money only to those who will use it properly. Some leave their jobs and families to stand, buffeted by the elements and beaten by the police, in defiance of a system that is broken beyond repair. Some take more direct measures — they throw stones, bottles or bombs. They become criminals, because they know that in the face of Armageddon there can be no conversation or patience. There can be only action, only decision, and if that involves bleeding or dying, then at least they can say they tried. Even such noble sentiment can be turned, though. Evil is patient. Evil is insidious. And unlike our world, the World of Darkness boasts monsters. Spirits slither into human beings, animals, and whatever else they can and twist flesh, bone, and viscera into monsters. Whole city blocks, acres of forests, entire lakes — any place can become tainted, spewing out such creatures or sucking in life and decaying it. Vampires roam the city streets, and although they might be monsters, they at least are capable of remembering their humanity and acting on it. But stranger beasts still lurk in the crevices of the world, and they see human beings — indeed, they see life — the way we would see the last morsel of food on the plate. Fortunately, though, the world of Werewolf also boasts warriors who are willing to give their last breaths if it means the world can repair itself. They aren’t incorruptible, they aren’t always noble, but they probably have a better chance than anyone of fighting back successfully, simply because they can fight this degradation on its own terms.

From M20: Magick lives. The Art of Change never went away. Though the age of sorcerers has faded to mythology, magick holds a real and vibrant role in the world we know. Don’t think so? Look around you. We fly over oceans and look across time. The distance between Dallas and Tokyo can fit in your pocket. You could craft whole worlds out of numbers on a screen, or visit Africa without leaving your chair. If that’s not magickal, what is? Magick isn’t witches on brooms or demons conjured in the night. It can be, but it isn’t limited to that. Magick is the force of possibility… and now, more than perhaps ever before, it seems as though all things are possible. And yet we’re told that the age of miracles is over. We’re living in the End Times, a hopeless grind where novelty is just another pop-up ad. We’ve been set against one another in a round-robin game of trivial pursuits. The best we can hope for, we are told, is a big house and a warm bed and a bunch of money in the bank. So sit the fuck down, shut the fuck up, have your TV and a Big Mac and think you’ve got it made. Bullshit. Wake up. Your future’s on the table. There’s a war all around you, with Reality itself at stake. In the neon shadows of a tech-besotted world, there are agents of change fighting to forge your future. Some look like Hogwarts refugees or Terminator clones. Some throw fire or call down storms. Most of them look just like you or me, but looks can be deceiving. Call them mystics. Call them mages. Call them Technocrats or Mad Ones, but don’t presume they aren’t there. Because there’s a war on. And now you’re part of it. Welcome to the world of Mage. Where Past and Future become Now.


These are realy important thoughts for me, because both speaks about possibility. The possibility of hope in a fucked-up world, and I think it's important.

[stylanski]

I just want to add one minor concern of mine. As above, I'm fairly optimistic, but a few little hints in the Q&A video especially about the dying of Gaia and the global surveilance (mainly the Werewolf and Mage-related things) are made me wonder that wouldn't WoD has the potential to became a little bit TOO dark? Like revised era turned to eleven. My main concern isn't really the grittiness-shittiness of the setting (thats cool, and expected), it's the potential total hopelesness. Like, the Technocracy absolutely winned, tha garou are absolutely doomed, Changelings are nearly extinct to banality, things like that, then, what's the point? Note that I don't think that it would be like that and I hope it would be awesome, but I also hope the direction will be somewhat close(er) to the tone of W20 and M20's "baseline" metaplot choices.

All in all, I'm just hoping that they visualize a setting where's still hope, not just an apocalypse, or post apocalyptical one, where all is already lost, all is doomed. I think without that, the fight, the struggle, the essential being of characters are meaningless. There has to be SOME light to cast shadows.

Some of today's headlines:
* Spanish PM attacked by teenager. Spain is fed up with austerity, and the failure of Syriza in Greece has only increased hopelessness.
* Danish government rules in favour of confiscating belongings and cash over $400 from refugees, so that their processing costs are covered.
* End of Quantitative Easing for the US economy, threatening the fragile, recovering world economy.
* Violence between politicians in the Ukrainian parliament.

I'm not saying things are absolutely bleak, but you get my drift... In a neoplatonic WoD, the material is bound to suck big time. The question, and here WoD has always played with our heads, is if our world is also neoplatonic. :P

Edit: Also, it might be helpful if you see Good and Evil in WoD, not as two different, distinct entities. Like darkness and light, evil is the absence of good.

For example, it's not giving in to Monstrosity that makes Vampires evil, it's the abandonment of Humanity that does that. Do good people care enough to keep up the fight, hold on to their beliefs? Then there's good left in the world, but the monsters will do everything so that they either give up or go away...

After all, who can say if it's truly evil to just stop caring, keep your head down, just go to work, pay the bills and hope someone does the right thing for you?

[Ephsy]

Also, on the Monday Meeting notes, another poster said that in the video, they said they will change where Generation comes from. Are they getting rid of Caine entirely?!

Well, Blood Potency was the next best thing to happen to Kindred after Gehenna, so...

[Ephsy]

No. I simply enjoyed what WWP had to say. They seem like fans, just like me.

And I'm a male.

Would you like me to throw insults from behind my computer, too?

Basically what BDH said.

Oh I didn't meant to insult you. Just pictured a dude squealing in delight. Sorry for the inconvenience.

[PMárk]

Dude. The setting was an apocalypse waiting to happen for over 25 years.

And I never really bought the whole end-of-the-world thing. I like the idea of a smaller-scale, cyclical Gehenna (don't even goint to the fact that vampires and even real-world people ALWAYS anticipated some sort of apocalypse), the reniassance of magic and reality zones approach of M20, the notion of enviromentalism as a global movement nowadays and the whole "there is still hope, there is still fights worth fighting" tone in W20, that sort of things. My opinion that corruption has a much greater meaning in a world where is still good things to corrupt or defend, where's still a hope for a better future, not just slow, or swift death. Belive me, it's far-faaaar from Rainbow-Unicorn-Shit. I like the WoD DARK, just, for me it's not necessiate ending it. Again, the X20 lines did hit the proverbial sweet spot for me overall.

But hey, tastes and stuff! If, for you WoD is about the absolutely sure doom and the "bad guys" (I mean general antagonists of the lines) already and totaly won, it's okay.

[Ephsy]

Dude. The setting was an apocalypse waiting to happen for over 25 years. Nevermind no amount of meta-plot can actually dictate how you Mood your table.

[PMárk]

I just want to add one minor concern of mine. As above, I'm fairly optimistic, but a few little hints in the Q&A video especially about the dying of Gaia and the global surveilance (mainly the Werewolf and Mage-related things) are made me wonder that wouldn't WoD has the potential to became a little bit TOO dark? Like revised era turned to eleven. My main concern isn't really the grittiness-shittiness of the setting (thats cool, and expected), it's the potential total hopelesness. Like, the Technocracy absolutely winned, tha garou are absolutely doomed, Changelings are nearly extinct to banality, things like that, then, what's the point? Note that I don't think that it would be like that and I hope it would be awesome, but I also hope the direction will be somewhat close(er) to the tone of W20 and M20's "baseline" metaplot choices.

All in all, I'm just hoping that they visualize a setting where's still hope, not just an apocalypse, or post apocalyptical one, where all is already lost, all is doomed. I think without that, the fight, the struggle, the essential being of characters are meaningless. There has to be SOME light to cast shadows.

[Thorbes]

Well, seen the video and the Q&A. The lead storyteller is such a fanboy, he's so cute! Well, it seems the intellectual property is in way better hands than CCP.

[xiongrey]

I've had a few days of sleep.

The name isn't growing on me but as expected I seem to care less about the name.

Now I'm pretty happy that OPP gets to keep, more or less, calling the shots for CofD. And I wouldn't mind playing some videogames or watching a show based on WoD either but I'll stick to playing CofD.

[PMárk]

All in all, I don't find the cosmologies in the WoD to be too different or too contradictory. Take for example Weaver, Wyrm and Wyld. They align quite neatly with Mage (Weaver = Technocracy, Wyrm = Nephandi, Wyld = Marauders). Wraith meshes quite well with stuff in Mage about the underworld and Vampire and the material on the Giovanni as well. Same goes for Lilith. She's a powerful figure mentioned in Mage, her lover Lucifer bridges the gap to Demon. Caine is a cursed mortal. Abel maybe Charon. There is a lot already there to connect the dots of the different game lines into a cohesive whole.

Same here. Honestly, I've been always thinking that the "thou shalt absolutely be separate because of incompatibility" opinion is highly excessive. At least I always preferred something similar to their one world so far, when I thinked about WoD, so I'm extremely happy about this! Also, Martin's comments about cohesive ruleset is promising. Frankly, their whole enthusiasm seems VERY promising.

At this point, I'm positively excited about the future of WoD. All they said concept-wise sounds very good, I'm just hoping that I will like the details of the result, like actual story, mechanics, artistic direction, etc. It's also good that they are seeing the tremendous work OP did to keep the games living and thriving and I hope they and their writers of the X20 lines will have a significant part in the making of the new eddition, hovewer I absolutely understand WWP's plans to make it in-house for the reasons they and RichT explained in the videos and here on the blog.

[Erinys]

I could not watch the video yesterday, but I will try today. Gaaahh I'm so apprehensive about this whole thing.

[Murder-of-Crows]

They talk about Generation in the Q&A, but they never imply getting rid of Caine in any way.

What did they say? I guess I haven't watched that yet.