Paradox Interactive (the Crusader Kings people, not the Conan/Mutant Chronicles ones) buy the White Wolf properties [Merged x10]

[History]

They talk about Generation in the Q&A, but they never imply getting rid of Caine in any way.

[Murder-of-Crows]

Also, on the Monday Meeting notes, another poster said that in the video, they said they will change where Generation comes from. Are they getting rid of Caine entirely?!

I would take that with a grain of salt. The video doesn't say anything to substantiate that rumor, though I know that the poster in question has attended the convention where the videos were made. But I don't think that anything will change here. It would be really strange to do so.

All in all, I don't find the cosmologies in the WoD to be too different or too contradictory. Take for example Weaver, Wyrm and Wyld. They align quite neatly with Mage (Weaver = Technocracy, Wyrm = Nephandi, Wyld = Marauders). Wraith meshes quite well with stuff in Mage about the underworld and Vampire and the material on the Giovanni as well. Same goes for Lilith. She's a powerful figure mentioned in Mage, her lover Lucifer bridges the gap to Demon. Caine is a cursed mortal. Abel maybe Charon. There is a lot already there to connect the dots of the different game lines into a cohesive whole.

[History]

Here is the Q&A video were they explain everything more: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2RSD4lVPJt4

Thanks again, Heavy Arms. I wish I could say any of that looks hopeful. I like most of what OPP has done with the 20th Anniversary editions and do not want to see the gamelines phased out, cancelled, expired, or otherwise ended. I really don't want a repeat of 2004.

I disagree about their compatibility. Consensual reality, in particular, is incompatible with everything except Mage and maybe Demon, but absolutely essential for Mage. Vampire cosmology says Gaia is just an Antediluvian vampire and werewolves are like her ghouls or something. Werewolf cosmology says that vampires are fomori. Mage cosmology says every living person has an avatar which doesn't really work in Werewolf cosmology. Heck, within Werewolf and probably Mage, different groups have beliefs that aren't compatible. You can't reconcile the Rokea beliefs with Garou beliefs except by saying one or both religions are wrong.

I don't agree with that, Mage in its original run even introduced some stuff to make the idea compatible with other lines more or less by making them fundamental parts of reality not affected by it. And they even said they don't want to give an actual answer to how everything works, there will be just different points of view to the whole thing.

Also, on the Monday Meeting notes, another poster said that in the video, they said they will change where Generation comes from. Are they getting rid of Caine entirely?!

They never said such a thing, just watch the video. They almost said the contrary, actually. All the new stuff they will add to the vampiric condition will be stuff that no one noticed until now or have just surfaced in a significant way.

Now seriously, why not just watch all the videos to get a bit what they want to do?

[dxanders]

Thanks again, Heavy Arms. I wish I could say any of that looks hopeful. I like most of what OPP has done with the 20th Anniversary editions and do not want to see the gamelines phased out, cancelled, expired, or otherwise ended. I really don't want a repeat of 2004.

I disagree about their compatibility. Consensual reality, in particular, is incompatible with everything except Mage and maybe Demon, but absolutely essential for Mage. Vampire cosmology says Gaia is just an Antediluvian vampire and werewolves are like her ghouls or something. Werewolf cosmology says that vampires are fomori. Mage cosmology says every living person has an avatar which doesn't really work in Werewolf cosmology. Heck, within Werewolf and probably Mage, different groups have beliefs that aren't compatible. You can't reconcile the Rokea beliefs with Garou beliefs except by saying one or both religions are wrong.

Also, on the Monday Meeting notes, another poster said that in the video, they said they will change where Generation comes from. Are they getting rid of Caine entirely?!

I think you can get around it by essentially saying no one's completely right but no one's completely wrong. The progenitor of the kindred are Cain, who is believed to be cursed by god, but who knows if that god is actually the One True Abrahamic God(TM), some manifestation of the Wyrm, or an ungodly powerful Archmage. Maybe it's all just myth. Werewolves are there to maintain the balance of a primordial Triat that doesn't preclude the idea of the Cainite God. Both of these things can still exist within the consensual reality of Mage, either because there are some fundamental parts of the universe that are generally unassailable or because it's just a part of the general consensus.

I personally prefer keeping each of the games separate, but I don't see how it couldn't be tweaked into a shared reality without fundamentally breaking everything.

[Erinys]

Thanks again, Heavy Arms. I wish I could say any of that looks hopeful. I like most of what OPP has done with the 20th Anniversary editions and do not want to see the gamelines phased out, cancelled, expired, or otherwise ended. I really don't want a repeat of 2004.

The focus seems to be on Vampire/Werewolf/Mage, at least for now, and I really think those mythologies could largely interact with one another without doing too much damage.

I disagree about their compatibility. Consensual reality, in particular, is incompatible with everything except Mage and maybe Demon, but absolutely essential for Mage. Vampire cosmology says Gaia is just an Antediluvian vampire and werewolves are like her ghouls or something. Werewolf cosmology says that vampires are fomori. Mage cosmology says every living person has an avatar which doesn't really work in Werewolf cosmology. Heck, within Werewolf and probably Mage, different groups have beliefs that aren't compatible. You can't reconcile the Rokea beliefs with Garou beliefs except by saying one or both religions are wrong.

Also, on the Monday Meeting notes, another poster said that in the video, they said they will change where Generation comes from. Are they getting rid of Caine entirely?!

[Fat Larry]

"Ephsy hasn't really been posting frequently enough for me to get context for their tone, but I don't think that post was intended to be insulting. My wife regularly calls me out on how I fangirl over OPP products, for instance (and I'm also male)."

Don't have that rapport with him/her as I've never had any interaction with them in the past. Regardless, it's still not appreciated.

Carry on.

[dxanders]

From the sound of things, WW/Paradox aren't even quite sure exactly what they want to do yet. That makes sense. This is a recent buy, and they want to be very careful in how they design the setting if they want it to be a successful and unified multimedia property.

My best guess is that we'll be seeing a soft reboot. Strip back a lot of the metaplot detritus that developed over the years and return to something a bit more in line with the 2nd edition books. It strikes me that would ring true to existing fans will still providing WW the leeway to develop their own story. The focus seems to be on Vampire/Werewolf/Mage, at least for now, and I really think those mythologies could largely interact with one another without doing too much damage.

[Heavy Arms]

So what happens to cWoD20 once the new editions start?

That wasn't really part of the presentation. Given the amount of respect they were showing to Onyx Path though, I doubt they intend to rock that boat too much. It seems more like they'll let the X20 stuff phase out slowly, rather than just stop now with what's been announced. The One WOD stuff is far from ready, and they clearly recognize the need for Onyx Path/By Night/etc.to continue making things to continue keeping the fans engaged and involved (for example they dropped a side note pitch to back the new WtA MET book that's getting a Kickstarter soonish).

One of the things that's clear is that Martin is a massive WOD (of all stripes) nerd. He seems to really appreciate these things, and while he has a vision for what he wants the One WOD to be, I think get also gets the love/passion/etc. we have for what's already out there. I think he knows that his vision isn't everyone's vision, and one of the ways to divert possible negative responses to his vision is to make sure that the older/current stuff doesn't simply get tossed out in process.

They did express being very aware that making their vision happen means making the current fans happy. Niche products like this succeed or crash largely based on the fans when you try to push them into the mainstream. The MCU (again,using my own example) works because the new Marvel movies are true to the spirit of the comics, without getting bogged down by the comics, and Marvel/Disney not being too forceful about trying to bend the comics that were already being written to turn into printed versions of the MCU. They seem to get that their One WOD faces a similar climate.

I'm very worried about what they'll do to cosmology, metaplot, and thematics to mash all the WoD gamelines together into one whole. There's no way to do that without throwing out all the metaphysics and themes and secret history of every setting and creating a whole new setting that only slightly resembles the old gamelines. This is exactly what I DIDN'T want to happen.

I think this is going to be a "wait and see" thing, since they haven't expressed a clear direction here. They addressed the validity of this concern, and something that they seem to understand is a big hurdle for them, but they expressed confidence in finding a balance between the One WOD, and trampling on the things that make each game-line unique. Either they'll figure it out, or they don't, but they seem cognizant that failing this is a big problem for them.

Is there any hint whether it's going to be post-Apocalypse/Gehenna/Ascension, or still set before the only-vaguely-scheduled End?

Not really.

There were some small hints but nothing so clear cut. Martin suggested that the Garou are still fighting for Gaia, but she may or may not be dead (which could be post-Apocalypse, or just a retcon to make WtA more open by removing the certainty in the game of Gaia and Luna sitting around as active good deities directing the PCs); which is about as much as they touched on this.

[BigDamnHero]

No. I simply enjoyed what WWP had to say. They seem like fans, just like me.

And I'm a male.

Would you like me to throw insults from behind my computer, too?

Ephsy hasn't really been posting frequently enough for me to get context for their tone, but I don't think that post was intended to be insulting. My wife regularly calls me out on how I fangirl over OPP products, for instance (and I'm also male).

[Fat Larry]

Fan-girling hard, I see.

No. I simply enjoyed what WWP had to say. They seem like fans, just like me.

And I'm a male.

Would you like me to throw insults from behind my computer, too?

[Erinys]

Thank you Heavy Arms.

So what happens to cWoD20 once the new editions start? Are they going to allow the X20th editions to still be published at the same time and separately from their merged WoD? RichT said they can continue publishing right now but I can't imagine OPP being allowed to keep the license after the new "One World" editions start.

I'm very worried about what they'll do to cosmology, metaplot, and thematics to mash all the WoD gamelines together into one whole. There's no way to do that without throwing out all the metaphysics and themes and secret history of every setting and creating a whole new setting that only slightly resembles the old gamelines. This is exactly what I DIDN'T want to happen.

Is there any hint whether it's going to be post-Apocalypse/Gehenna/Ascension, or still set before the only-vaguely-scheduled End?

[Ephsy]

Loved every single I heard from them at the conference, and that trailer made me scream with joy. Very excited about the future of the WoD.

Fan-girling hard, I see.

[Fat Larry]

Loved every single I heard from them at the conference, and that trailer made me scream with joy. Very excited about the future of the WoD.

[AzraelFirestorm]

Doesn't seem bad at all.

Yeah. Sounds pretty good, actually. Really, with the huge library of previous supplementary material for all the cWoD lines, the attempt to merge the universe into a singular model (which is weirdly reminiscent of the nOd blue book, but in a very different way...) will probably only be as pervasive as Storytellers let it be. We've always had translated, simplified versions of other WoD splats as NPCs in our core books. Finding a mechanical balance that works, while also NOT using GMC/CoD retreads (I mean, if it's just the same system with tiny tweaks..it's just the same shiz, different dark night, right? There needs to be some mechanical distinction imo), would be amazing. There's always been the option for crossover. Why not crossover that isn't broken?

[wyrdhamster]

So, basically, they want to make nWoD... ee, Chronicles of Darkness on global scale. But based on cWoD.