Paradox Interactive (the Crusader Kings people, not the Conan/Mutant Chronicles ones) buy the White Wolf properties [Merged x10]

[Palp]

Correct. Which is why anyone with any sense is going to outright ignore as much of the illogical and un-relaxed portion of a fanbase as is possible, because people not prepared to have reasonable, logical responses are going to be unreasonable and illogical no matter what.

If companies avoided doing anything that someone, say you in particular for example, might react illogically too... they'd basically be incapable of doing anything at all, even specifically asking you personally what to do and then trying to do that because they might misunderstand what you told them, or they might do exactly what you asked for and you responded to it illogically anyway.

I disagree. There are much better ways they could/can handle this then ignoring it. The first would be to make sure this was not the first deal that was revealed. That before this there would be several others that the fan base could view positively.

Yes, I mistyped. It's been such a long time that the only thing I have followed "Vampire: the" with is "Requiem" that my hands often go on auto-pilot and type that instead of "Masquerade" and my eyes don't notice it.

Ah, yeah. I know that feeling.

If a book comes out titled Vampire: the Masquerade 4th edition, that is not at all inaccurate as it will be the 4th edition of such a book because, and this is important, whoever picks the title for a book is accurate, even if some fan wants to count differently.

That's how we are looking at a potential 4th edition coming from White Wolf, and how the latest version of D&D is 5th edition rather than 15th edition.

Not really an important part of the discussion?

There will be a release in 2016, that's a general release time.

There will? Of what? The vampire the masquerade 4th edition core book?

I'm confused as to how you are able to reconcile the statements that you don't find slot machines a suitably dignified use of license and that the things being given the license are "big here in Sweden."

The equivalent would be like me saying that if White Wolf opened a night club with a vampire-chic theme here in America where plenty of folks love the club scene that it would be somehow anything but a potential way to generate interest in the world of darkness among people that don't have it yet, and for people already enjoying the world of darkness to expand their enjoyment to new medium should they desire.

Because its an entirely different audience and not looked upon favourably by the public. Ok, a lot of anecdotes here. Online casinos are generally seen as played by weak people that can not control themselves, and mostely the sports crowd, separate form the geek and gamer crowd. These companies are also often seen as quite despicable, preying on the weak.

...and when we get to the launch, you can judge whether or not they are "on the ball" or not. Your perception that we are in any stages of a launch right now is in error.

They where in a launch the moment they announced the buying of the IP, and specially after they gave a con presentation. That is when people started taking notice and examining them.

Which is exactly why I don't believe your opinions on these topics hold much weight - turning down an offer when it comes along usually means turning down that offer forever because whatever party you turn down doesn't just sit and wait for you to change your mind, they go a different direction and either succeed (so they don't feel a need to come back to you) or they fail (so they don't have the means to make an appealing deal with you anymore).

So? Do you think Paradox should look poor and desperate? Taking any offer that comes along to scratch out a quick buck and not minding the consequences and how it makes them and their brand look?

That's fine, and it shouldn't. It should fill you with confidence that the lack of communication is intentional, rather than accidental, and maybe even suggest some confidence that once information is given that said information will be accurate.

I know it is a matter of taste, but I greatly prefer only being told accurate information at such a time as it is genuinely relevant to being able to see information in a constant stream that continues to evolve as time goes on and plans change to match practicality - and I prefer the condition of the fanbase under such conditions as well, because speculation and theorizing in the silence is a less caustic environment than declarations of "they lied to us!" and "that's stupid! let's petition for them to change it to match what we want, nevermind how much data they might have which says we're the obvious minority opinion here!" in an ever flowing stream of information changing by necessity.

I think communication should be both frequent and truthful. If it is not both of these things it can lead to very bad things.

There is not a word that can be said, especially when strung together with others in order to communicate a thought, which cannot be taken "very badly."

And the real counterpoint: he says a number of things in that interview which can be taken very well - and they are the very same things which you say can be taken very badly

Yes, and the answer to that form his side should be to see how people are reacting to what he says, then communicate more to clarify if the reactions are incorrect.

[Ephsy]

Funny you mention that. Just as I witness people are going NUTS on Twitter and attacking the White Wolf twitter account because of that very thing.

'I can't believe you entered a partnership with the slots makers! You're never getting my money agaiiiiiiiiin!'

I'm not kidding.

Twitter haters for you. I'd be surprised if that was an actual reason for legitimate alarm.

[nofather]

Funny you mention that. Just as I witness people are going NUTS on Twitter and attacking the White Wolf twitter account because of that very thing.

Care to link? I've found one tweet saying they thought it was 'disconcerting.'

[Fat Larry]

Yeah, nobody who consumes WoD is going to go "Oh? They're making slot machines now? Better burn my collection."

Funny you mention that. Just as I witness people are going NUTS on Twitter and attacking the White Wolf twitter account because of that very thing.

'I can't believe you entered a partnership with the slots makers! You're never getting my money agaiiiiiiiiin!'

I'm not kidding.

[Drake]

Fans of brands are not quite so relaxed and logical.

Correct. Which is why anyone with any sense is going to outright ignore as much of the illogical and un-relaxed portion of a fanbase as is possible, because people not prepared to have reasonable, logical responses are going to be unreasonable and illogical no matter what.

If companies avoided doing anything that someone, say you in particular for example, might react illogically too... they'd basically be incapable of doing anything at all, even specifically asking you personally what to do and then trying to do that because they might misunderstand what you told them, or they might do exactly what you asked for and you responded to it illogically anyway.

Actually it was vampire the masquerade 4th edition

Yes, I mistyped. It's been such a long time that the only thing I have followed "Vampire: the" with is "Requiem" that my hands often go on auto-pilot and type that instead of "Masquerade" and my eyes don't notice it.

4th edition OWOD..well I am not sure I would call it 4th, more 5th or even 6th but that is not important.

If a book comes out titled Vampire: the Masquerade 4th edition, that is not at all inaccurate as it will be the 4th edition of such a book because, and this is important, whoever picks the title for a book is accurate, even if some fan wants to count differently.

That's how we are looking at a potential 4th edition coming from White Wolf, and how the latest version of D&D is 5th edition rather than 15th edition.

no general release times.

There will be a release in 2016, that's a general release time.

I am already imagining wheels of spinning clan symbols and little animated coins with camarilla ones, not exactly the most dignified use of the license. Also a curious thing is that Mr. Green, Leo Vegas and bet365 is "big" here in Sweden, I often see commercials for them on the TV and such. I am curious if this was a factor for Martin considering his own background.

I'm confused as to how you are able to reconcile the statements that you don't find slot machines a suitably dignified use of license and that the things being given the license are "big here in Sweden."

The equivalent would be like me saying that if White Wolf opened a night club with a vampire-chic theme here in America where plenty of folks love the club scene that it would be somehow anything but a potential way to generate interest in the world of darkness among people that don't have it yet, and for people already enjoying the world of darkness to expand their enjoyment to new medium should they desire.

I disagree, brand perception in the early stages of a launch is very important, you need to be on the ball and control it.

...and when we get to the launch, you can judge whether or not they are "on the ball" or not. Your perception that we are in any stages of a launch right now is in error.

Personally? Yes I would have.

Which is exactly why I don't believe your opinions on these topics hold much weight - turning down an offer when it comes along usually means turning down that offer forever because whatever party you turn down doesn't just sit and wait for you to change your mind, they go a different direction and either succeed (so they don't feel a need to come back to you) or they fail (so they don't have the means to make an appealing deal with you anymore).

Does not fill me with confidence for transparency and open communication.

That's fine, and it shouldn't. It should fill you with confidence that the lack of communication is intentional, rather than accidental, and maybe even suggest some confidence that once information is given that said information will be accurate.

I know it is a matter of taste, but I greatly prefer only being told accurate information at such a time as it is genuinely relevant to being able to see information in a constant stream that continues to evolve as time goes on and plans change to match practicality - and I prefer the condition of the fanbase under such conditions as well, because speculation and theorizing in the silence is a less caustic environment than declarations of "they lied to us!" and "that's stupid! let's petition for them to change it to match what we want, nevermind how much data they might have which says we're the obvious minority opinion here!" in an ever flowing stream of information changing by necessity.

Actually personally I have little stake in this.

It sure appears to be otherwise.

...he says a number of things in that interview which can be taken very badly...

There is not a word that can be said, especially when strung together with others in order to communicate a thought, which cannot be taken "very badly."

And the real counterpoint: he says a number of things in that interview which can be taken very well - and they are the very same things which you say can be taken very badly.

[Ephsy]

Vidya-games.

[Darksider]

WoD stuff, not CofD stuff. They specifically call out knowledge of the WoD and its metaplot. That doesn't seem like it's focused on future Onyx Path stuff (except as possibly related to Exalted as that got a small mention). It looks like they're looking to find someone to help guide third party development of WoD related merchandise they aren't specifically developing in house, not just things developed by OPP.

[The young man in the cafe]

If they're trying to combine RPG story lines with virtual gambling, then maybe I would be okay with it if there was a game mechanism where you built a character and use that char's powers to CHEAT at the gambling. Like it's a ventrue/giovanni/pentax/ whatever casino and you're trying to use your abilities to cheat the casino, but you have to do it under the nose of a virtual supernaturally aware pitboss who will try and stop you... that would actually be kind of fun.

[nofather]

White Wolf is looking for an Editor: http://career.paradoxplaza.com/jobs/8270-editor

It actually looks like they're trying to find someone to review Onyx Path stuff. And possibly others if they license it out further.

[Leorgrium]

White Wolf is looking for an Editor: http://career.paradoxplaza.com/jobs/8270-editor

[Asmodai]

I had to share this...

And now I'm imagining a Wraith slot machine. Every roll is a loss, except for the ones which are super losses. It also constantly berates you about your failings and keeps trying to push you to suicide. Eventually you realize that tragedy and joy are equal aspects of life and proceed to go do something productive with your time. Very zen.

What's more, any coins you win are individually named.
"Gregor Mendoza, 1967-1989"
"Isabelle Smith, 1954-1992"

[Dwight]

Yeah, nobody who consumes WoD is going to go "Oh? They're making slot machines now? Better burn my collection."

I'm hoping for a breakfast cereal myself "Frosted Edge-e-o's" little marshmallow fangs, bats and trench coats.

I'm pretty sure the slot game is just some low hanging fruit to start earning some returns on the IP purchase and not the beginning of a trend of them "pimping" out the IP for every cent it's worth..

[Ephsy]

Yeah, nobody who consumes WoD is going to go "Oh? They're making slot machines now? Better burn my collection."

[Fat Larry]

Drake is 100% on target.

I say this as a Walking Dead slot machine advertismathingamajig is on my Facebook right now.

This is a non-issue.

[Palp]

Whatever damage this slot machines, virtual or otherwise, do to the brand is guaranteed to be of lesser intensity and scope than things which the brand has already survived - namely that whole situation of how you can't just stroll into your FLGS and see World of Darkness books and ads.

True, but they are in the process of reviatlising the brand and as such have a different kind of attention then the brand have had during the last 10 years.

That's absolute nonsense. If the people interested in the World of Darkness have no interest in these slot games, then the announcement means nothing to them, since it doesn't include any language that suggests or states exclusion of whatever products those people are interested in, and since it comes from some other party rather than White Wolf itself doesn't indicate any reduction of attention (measured in number of staff assigned to projects) to any non-slot game products.

Fans of brands are not quite so relaxed and logical. Their perceptions of it can change even with products they themselves have no direct interest in. Its the risk of them thinking of the brand as cheapened, their loyalty betrayed by it not being administered properly and with exclusivity to the areas they think it deserves.

That Onyx Path made the announcement of Vampire: the Requiem 4th edition does not change that White Wolf made announcement of their One World of Darkness.

Actually it was vampire the masquerade 4th edition, and one world of darkness is the same thing (4th edition OWOD..well I am not sure I would call it 4th, more 5th or even 6th but that is not important.). It was also a very nebulous announcement with very little information (no specific products, no general release times.) while much more can be inferred for this, online casino slot machine programs for Mr Green and Leo vegas. I am already imagining wheels of spinning clan symbols and little animated coins with camarilla ones, not exactly the most dignified use of the license. Also a curious thing is that Mr. Green, Leo Vegas and bet365 is "big" here in Sweden, I often see commercials for them on the TV and such. I am curious if this was a factor for Martin considering his own background.

This being the first known licensing deal, as I already said, means only that: this is the first licensing deal to get far enough in the licensing process to be publicly announced. It is not harmful information to anyone in any way (except, of course, to any other slot machine companies that may have been in competition for the deal or might experience heavier competition from these slot machines).

I disagree, brand perception in the early stages of a launch is very important, you need to be on the ball and control it.

If you think I said there is nothing to a brand than products, you are mistaken. I said that nothing creates brand confidence but the product - meaning throwing a large scale larp isn't going to inspire people to be confident in the brand unless the product (read: the actual play experience at that larp event) is worthy of confidence (or nearly worthy of confidence, and paired with an awareness of its flaws among the designers and clear and reasonable plans to get it up to snuff for the future).

Sorry, I missunderstood.

That you have no idea what they are doing doesn't mean that they have no idea what they are doing.

True, I can not know. And this lack of communication leads to much speculation for people.

You, apparently, would have outright refused this licensing deal because it isn't perfectly timed with some preconceived notion that the priority order of licensing deals and announcement of products will correspond to the practical order of such events.

Personally? Yes I would have.

As for comments on Martin's statements regarding liking secrets and lack of communication, I have no idea what you are talking about - perhaps because of the supposed lack of communication,

Oh, that is from this part of his interview:

Our launch plan will always be a secret until it’s not. I love the speculation and mystery surrounding future releases we saw in the 90’s, so we will definitely play with that aspect. Hints and clues to what will come next will appear in future products and WW communiques.

Does not fill me with confidence for transparency and open communication.

perhaps because you have put yourself in a state of over analysis of every tidbit of information that comes along because you are dreading something bad happening and don't realize that your perception shapes your reality (meaning if you expect things you don't like to happen, everything that does happen is colored as unlikeable to you as it can be - such as appears to have happened here with you seeing the World of Darkness spread to a new medium with which to potentially draw in new fans, and have decried it as harmful because you don't see the clear relationship between gambling and the dice portion of a role-playing game (both games of chance) and between the subject matter of the role-playing game and gambling (again, both are "adult entertainment")

Actually personally I have little stake in this. It was a long time since I had an interest in the OWOD rpgs and I have moved on from them. And even if I did I imagine my thought would be "eh, I have 20 th in any case." I may have an interest in good video games, series moves and so on and whatever else may come out of their multimedia bonanza plans. I am trying to approach this in a neutral manner as well as bring forth opinions I have seen in various places. And me overanalyse? Perish the thought .

Edit to Add: I've now read the recent interview with Martin and found his comment that appears to have been taken out of context, because "likes secrets and lack of communication in marketing to create theorizing," (your summation) is an entirely different thing from "I love the speculation and mystery surrounding future releases we saw in the 90’s..." (his actual statement).

I see, did not realise you have not read it. Yes I wish he was more clear and communicative, he says a number of things in that interview which can be taken very badly, dont seem to have much PR experience.I am curious what Paradox and WWs reaction to all this will be in the days to come if any.