Paradox Interactive (the Crusader Kings people, not the Conan/Mutant Chronicles ones) buy the White Wolf properties [Merged x10]

[Drake]

I dont think these are machines. But rather online casino web browser programs. And I would say that being one of the first thing you connect the brand to being online gambling is very weird, and not fitting at all as well as something that can do damage. This is anecdotal but people are already freaking out and loosing confidence and this is something that could have easily been avoided if they had just been more on the ball.

Whatever damage this slot machines, virtual or otherwise, do to the brand is guaranteed to be of lesser intensity and scope than things which the brand has already survived - namely that whole situation of how you can't just stroll into your FLGS and see World of Darkness books and ads.

Honestly I think very few people interested in the world of darkness will ever play these slot games. It is the anoncement and association itself at this particular time that are donig damage.

That's absolute nonsense. If the people interested in the World of Darkness have no interest in these slot games, then the announcement means nothing to them, since it doesn't include any language that suggests or states exclusion of whatever products those people are interested in, and since it comes from some other party rather than White Wolf itself doesn't indicate any reduction of attention (measured in number of staff assigned to projects) to any non-slot game products.

4th edition world of darkness had already been announced by Onyx Path. And 4th WOD is internal (or so I assume.) while thisi s their first known licensing deal.

That Onyx Path made the announcement of Vampire: the Requiem 4th edition does not change that White Wolf made announcement of their One World of Darkness.

This being the first known licensing deal, as I already said, means only that: this is the first licensing deal to get far enough in the licensing process to be publicly announced. It is not harmful information to anyone in any way (except, of course, to any other slot machine companies that may have been in competition for the deal or might experience heavier competition from these slot machines).

Announcements and associations are important as well. Just look at the rumblings that have been made about events (large scale larp and party ones, not at all saying these are a bad thing, but showing there are much more to a brand then products.

If you think I said there is nothing to a brand than products, you are mistaken. I said that nothing creates brand confidence but the product - meaning throwing a large scale larp isn't going to inspire people to be confident in the brand unless the product (read: the actual play experience at that larp event) is worthy of confidence (or nearly worthy of confidence, and paired with an awareness of its flaws among the designers and clear and reasonable plans to get it up to snuff for the future).

I would not be so sure, To me this is a sign they have no real idea what they are doing and makes me wonder who they have hired for this. That combined with Martins statements on how he likes secrets and lack of communication in marketing to create theorizing, something that thankfully died a painful death in the marketplace, well lets just say that it does not inspire confidence

That you have no idea what they are doing doesn't mean that they have no idea what they are doing.

You, apparently, would have outright refused this licensing deal because it isn't perfectly timed with some preconceived notion that the priority order of licensing deals and announcement of products will correspond to the practical order of such events.

As for comments on Martin's statements regarding liking secrets and lack of communication, I have no idea what you are talking about - perhaps because of the supposed lack of communication, perhaps because you have put yourself in a state of over analysis of every tidbit of information that comes along because you are dreading something bad happening and don't realize that your perception shapes your reality (meaning if you expect things you don't like to happen, everything that does happen is colored as unlikeable to you as it can be - such as appears to have happened here with you seeing the World of Darkness spread to a new medium with which to potentially draw in new fans, and have decried it as harmful because you don't see the clear relationship between gambling and the dice portion of a role-playing game (both games of chance) and between the subject matter of the role-playing game and gambling (again, both are "adult entertainment")

Edit to Add: I've now read the recent interview with Martin and found his comment that appears to have been taken out of context, because "likes secrets and lack of communication in marketing to create theorizing," (your summation) is an entirely different thing from "I love the speculation and mystery surrounding future releases we saw in the 90’s..." (his actual statement).

[Fat Larry]

Someone even pointed out to me that D&D has associated with gambling and slots in the past in various countries. I...did not know this.


Again, I see nothing wrong with this. As someone else said: doomsayers gonna doomsay.

[Palp]

Brand identity is nowhere near as sensitive as you suggest. Also, while you are correct that restriction is important to branding, that is more like White Wolf avoiding putting their brand on an ice cream sandwich, or a disposable diaper because those products do not embody the brand while also expanding it - the same cannot be said of slot machines as they are "adult entertainment" just like White Wolf games have always been (even if inaccurately) branded.

I dont think these are machines. But rather online casino web browser programs. And I would say that being one of the first thing you connect the brand to being online gambling is very weird, and not fitting at all as well as something that can do damage. This is anecdotal but people are already freaking out and loosing confidence and this is something that could have easily been avoided if they had just been more on the ball. And I wouldnt say the air of slot games and internet casinos is exactly maturity and exclusivity. More tacky and boring.

There is no damage being done to the White Wolf brand by the idea of White Wolf slot machines. Now, there could be some damage done to the brand by the actuality of these slot machines if they are not quality hardware, or make a joke of the brand (whether by trying to be funny, or by taking themselves far too seriously).

Honestly I think very few people interested in the world of darkness will ever play these slot games. It is the anoncement and association itself at this particular time that are donig damage.

It is not the first one announced. White Wolf's first announced branded item is the World of Darkness getting a new table-top role-playing game series.

4th edition world of darkness had already been announced by Onyx Path. And 4th WOD is internal (or so I assume.) while thisi s their first known licensing deal. A brand is an experience.

Nothing inspires brand confidence except actual product. Especially in this age of accessible information where countless cases of announced, but never delivered, products can be seen.

Announcements and associations are important as well. Just look at the rumblings that have been made about events (large scale larp and party ones, not at all saying these are a bad thing, but showing there are much more to a brand then products.

Sure. I would also expect them to know whether or not whatever it was that Konami did had any bearing on what is or isn't a good idea for White Wolf... because I'm currently not seeing any reason White Wolf should give any attention to whatever Konami is up to, nor why anyone might logically conclude that White Wolf is going to behave however it is that Konami has.

I would not be so sure, To me this is a sign they have no real idea what they are doing and makes me wonder who they have hired for this. That combined with Martins statements on how he likes secrets and lack of communication in marketing to create theorizing, something that thankfully died a painful death in the marketplace, well lets just say that it does not inspire confidence

[Drake]

Well yes, brand identity is a sensitive thing, and they are in a critical stage of it right now. Branding is not simply opening the door to however comes along wanting to be part of the pie, restriction is just as important as expansion.

Brand identity is nowhere near as sensitive as you suggest. Also, while you are correct that restriction is important to branding, that is more like White Wolf avoiding putting their brand on an ice cream sandwich, or a disposable diaper because those products do not embody the brand while also expanding it - the same cannot be said of slot machines as they are "adult entertainment" just like White Wolf games have always been (even if inaccurately) branded.

There is no damage being done to the White Wolf brand by the idea of White Wolf slot machines. Now, there could be some damage done to the brand by the actuality of these slot machines if they are not quality hardware, or make a joke of the brand (whether by trying to be funny, or by taking themselves far too seriously).

But it is the first one announced, the first one seen.

It is not the first one announced. White Wolf's first announced branded item is the World of Darkness getting a new table-top role-playing game series.

That is not something that inspires brand confidence.

Nothing inspires brand confidence except actual product. Especially in this age of accessible information where countless cases of announced, but never delivered, products can be seen.

Well no, but I would expect a market analyzer at White Wolf to be.

Sure. I would also expect them to know whether or not whatever it was that Konami did had any bearing on what is or isn't a good idea for White Wolf... because I'm currently not seeing any reason White Wolf should give any attention to whatever Konami is up to, nor why anyone might logically conclude that White Wolf is going to behave however it is that Konami has.

[Asmodai]

I'm pretty sure that's not the major release. This is just easy money. They will have to show to their bosses that the brand isn't gathering dust and that they have been looking into monetizing their investment.

[stylanski]

And so at last the first licensing deal is announced, with the first third party. And its..for slot machine games.

http://foxium.com/press-releases/

Really? A slot game? Get a new IP and just go Konami with it? Geez.

Well, there ya go folks. The promised major release for 2016. Now line-up and you may just win the Caine jackpot!
Either Pentex or the Malkavians are laughing right now...

If you hold your breath for a few seconds, you might just hear the sigh of relief coming from the CofD fans that WoD was picked as WW's flagship.

Kidding aside, that's more like old-school WW than you'd think. They're actively pushing the IP out there. Makes for a nice change from the WoD-shaped scar on CCP's ass from sitting on it for so long...

[Charlaquin]

Frankly, it seems to me like looking for things to get upset about. Which, to be fair, many long-time fans are doing, and they should probably keep that in mind. But picture this from an outside perspective. Someone who may be vaguely aware of the names World of Darkness and White Wolf, but isn't involved enough in the company to know all of the messy details about the IP changing hands and what not.

[Palp]

So are you saying that White Wolf should have shot down Foxium with an "...ask again in a few years." rather than working out a licensing deal now, or that they should have made the deal now because it came along now, but insist on some kind of "...but you don't get to mention it, or actually release any of those machines for a few years."?

Well yes, brand identity is a sensitive thing, and they are in a critical stage of it right now. Branding is not simply opening the door to however comes along wanting to be part of the pie, restriction is just as important as expansion.

If this is just the first of some unknown number of licensing deals to reach agreeable terms and be finalized, there is literally zero negative effect to it - even if doomsayers decide to use it as a means to doomsay, since nothing anyone has or can do is immune to doomsayers doing what they do.

But it is the first one announced, the first one seen. That is not something that inspires brand confidence.

In an interesting turn, I have literally heard nothing of this Konami situation other than what you said in this post, even though I am a member of this "gamer audience" of which you speak.

Well no, but I would expect a market analyzer at White Wolf to be.

[Drake]

I would say it shows a lack of awareness. This is a time where everyone (potential viral marketers.) are watching them like a hawk. A time where they need to establish brand loyalty, trust and confidence and then the first thing that is announced is this? Its a bad move. In a few years after the brand have been proliferated no one would give a crap, but now is a different story.

So are you saying that White Wolf should have shot down Foxium with an "...ask again in a few years." rather than working out a licensing deal now, or that they should have made the deal now because it came along now, but insist on some kind of "...but you don't get to mention it, or actually release any of those machines for a few years."?

If this is just the first of some unknown number of licensing deals to reach agreeable terms and be finalized, there is literally zero negative effect to it - even if doomsayers decide to use it as a means to doomsay, since nothing anyone has or can do is immune to doomsayers doing what they do.

Also the gamer audience is very negative of gambling machines/games right now after what Konami pulled, which was seen as a great betrayal of brand loyalty. And of course all this is combined with a frustrating silence and lack of communication from White wolf.

In an interesting turn, I have literally heard nothing of this Konami situation other than what you said in this post, even though I am a member of this "gamer audience" of which you speak.

[Palp]

Yeah I don't know why anyone would be bothered by this. I don't know why anyone would be excited about it either, but hey. Getting the brand out there isn't a bad thing.

I would say it shows a lack of awareness. This is a time where everyone (potential viral marketers.) are watching them like a hawk. A time where they need to establish brand loyalty, trust and confidence and then the first thing that is announced is this? Its a bad move. In a few years after the brand have been proliferated no one would give a crap, but now is a different story.

Also the gamer audience is very negative of gambling machines/games right now after what Konami pulled, which was seen as a great betrayal of brand loyalty. And of course all this is combined with a frustrating silence and lack of communication from White wolf.

[Charlaquin]

I'm not bothered or worried by this. They simply licensed it out to a company that specializes in Casino-type games. Could be cool.

Either way, this is NO WAY stops them from licensing out to Obsidian or anyone else in terms of making another CRPG. Hell, a ton of companies do this: Marvel, DC, EA, etc.

I already see a ton of people going nuts(in a bad way) over this, but I just don't see the problem with it. Unless it turns out to suck, in that case...

Yeah I don't know why anyone would be bothered by this. I don't know why anyone would be excited about it either, but hey. Getting the brand out there isn't a bad thing.

[Ephsy]

And so at last the first licensing deal is announced, with the first third party. And its..for slot machine games.

http://foxium.com/press-releases/

Really? A slot game? Get a new IP and just go Konami with it? Geez.

This is disappointing in the sense of having hired Michelangelo and instead of the Sistine Chapel he comes up with the Campbell's Soup piece.

Easy money, tho.

[haren]

It's probably a lot easier to come to terms on what is and is not acceptable with say a gambling machine than... for example, a CCG or CRPG. Just because it's the first they finish doesn't mean it was the first they started talking about.

[Fat Larry]

I'm not bothered or worried by this. They simply licensed it out to a company that specializes in Casino-type games. Could be cool.

Either way, this is NO WAY stops them from licensing out to Obsidian or anyone else in terms of making another CRPG. Hell, a ton of companies do this: Marvel, DC, EA, etc.

I already see a ton of people going nuts(in a bad way) over this, but I just don't see the problem with it. Unless it turns out to suck, in that case...

[Palp]

And so at last the first licensing deal is announced, with the first third party. And its..for slot machine games.

http://foxium.com/press-releases/

Really? A slot game? Get a new IP and just go Konami with it? Geez.