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Paradox Interactive (the Crusader Kings people, not the Conan/Mutant Chronicles ones) buy the White Wolf properties [Merged x10]

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  • Fat Larry
    replied
    I wonder, if even a little bit, if he's possibly regretting assuming the position he's in with Paradox and WWP. Like, perhaps he feels maybe based on the reaction of some, that the WoD was better off in CCP's hands. People throwing all types of insults at him at various corners of the internet, people throwing around the word "edgy" like nobody's business, etc.


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  • Ephsy
    replied
    I'm counting the seconds, really.

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  • Asmodai
    replied
    Originally posted by Darksider View Post
    I know it wasn't his intent to offend the writers and fans, but he did, and needs to understand the "how" as well as the "why" if he's going to be the public face of the company. He needs a marketing lesson on statement intent vs impact.
    I get that, and I agree with you. Their public relations haven't been the best. However from that reading of the text I think it wasn't justifiable to call him out as someone cheapening the September 11 attacks. We especially shouldn't be going as far as wishing or comparing it to actual new atrocities happening to people.

    Now if he made some other dumb comments, somewhere else, I'd love to see. Could you possibly link me up?

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  • Darksider
    replied
    I know it wasn't his intent to offend the writers and fans, but he did, and needs to understand the "how" as well as the "why" if he's going to be the public face of the company. He needs a marketing lesson on statement intent vs impact.

    Leave a comment:


  • Darksider
    replied
    Originally posted by Asmodai View Post
    Those are his exact words.
    ‚Äč"Fear is the death of creativity". He also felt the need to add that, and that adds some unpleasant implications about the writers who were handling the books at the time. The biggest complaints I'm seeing in the offsite discussions with the past writers is the lack of respect being implied towards them, because they erred on the side of being sensitive to a current situation (at the time) versus being artistically edgy. His later "apology" in one particular conversation didn't acknowledge the implied disrespect to the writers, he completely missed the point of what was getting people upset with him. It isn't just about talking about 9/11 or not in a product, that interview managed to generate some ill will on two different fronts. He probably should have avoided bringing LotFP into the conversation as well. We discourage negative comparisons between games from other companies on this site for a reason, I can't for the life of me figure out why he would open that can of worms.

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  • Luis Carlos
    replied
    * That is I mean, we should be careful to talk about the troubles from the real world. This isn't about your own limits, but about the limits by the rest of people. Would you produce a new season of "Preacher" teleserie after a terrorist attack againts a Catholic Cathedral in Europe (some years in the near future)?

    * For me fantasy isn't escapism but a softer way to talk about reality.

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  • nofather
    replied
    Originally posted by Darksider View Post
    All game based roleplaying is escapism to a degree. That's kind of the point of roleplaying games.

    Yes. I was somewhat surprised by the comment. However much we consider it a genre of its own, horror is more of a feeling from fantasy. And vampires, werewolves and mages are purely the realm of fantasy. That they're meant to be stylish or artistic doesn't change that.

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  • Asmodai
    replied
    Originally posted by Luis Carlos View Post
    How would the people from Paradox Studios feel with a urban fantasy fiction work about Swedish girls who are raped by hordes of werewolves? It is easy from North Europe to say 11-S is the past, but we have to respect people from the real world.
    Oi. That metaphor is taking it way too far. I'd also like to point out that he never said that September Eleven will be a part of the metaplot, but that the books can talk about things like September 11.

    Originally posted by Martin Ericsson
    If you can write about the Holocaust, you can write about 9/11.
    Those are his exact words. And considering that one of the heaviest topics covered by possibly one of the best RPG booksever written is exactly on that topic - Shoah, it's not exactly him calling for Assamite brainwashings or Ventrue conspiracies about September 11. If he is using Shoah as his level of commitment and demonstration of how human deeds impact human and inhuman society, it could be a sensible and sensitive approach to it.

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  • Darksider
    replied
    All game based roleplaying is escapism to a degree. That's kind of the point of roleplaying games.

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  • nofather
    replied
    He seems to think urban fantasy is escapism.

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  • Luis Carlos
    replied
    How would the people from Paradox Studios feel with a urban fantasy fiction work about Swedish girls who are raped by hordes of werewolves? It is easy from North Europe to say 11-S is the past, but we have to respect people from the real world.

    It isn't only about avoding controverses and troubles, and respecting human dignity of real people who has suffered real painful tragedies, but also because "adult roleplaying games" could create a bad image for fanboy community. Here in Spain near twenty years ago there were a bad reputation for rpgs by fault of a fool murder. "el asesino del rol" ( = the roleplaying killer).

    Let's imagine an episode of a future season of "American Horror Story" where a killer with mental problems and a shotgun causes a deadpool, not in a high school but in a Christian church from America or Europe. How would the society, the public opinion, react? But and what if it isn't a TV show but the "origin of that sick idea" to be from an adult rpg?

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  • Ephsy
    replied
    I'd be of the half mind of asking him if his favorite supplement wasn't Gypsies with that kind of mentality.

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  • Leetsepeak
    replied
    I have absolutely zero interest in seeing the One World of Darkness impute supernatural motives on the real tragedy that affected me and my city. That would be the absolute worst thing that Ericsson could possibly do, and if he actually wants to invite serious criticism of the direction for it, that'd be the way to do it.

    I feel less apprehension about acknowledging that it happened and that there might be consequences for supernatural denizens of New York as a result of this. I think Geist, for all it's flaws, did that pretty well.

    Given that we are talking about Old World of Darkness though, I am pretty concerned about it being the former. That's tasteless, lame, disrespectful and possibly the least creative route to take with it.

    Leave a comment:


  • Darksider
    replied
    Acknowledging an event happened is fine. Using it in your own personal game is also fine, with player consent. I start having major issues when writers are implied to be afraid of incorporating a real world tragedy into a fictional metaplot when that event is recent and feelings are still raw. Those issues become worse when I've been directly affected by the event, and when I'm friends with some of those writers. Sorry to beat a dead horse, this is the tl;dr version of my earlier posts.

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  • TyrannicalRabbit
    replied
    As a WoD vet I am somewhat torn on that comment. On one hand I feel that, as odd as it may sound in some ways. The way that the CoD series has been written. Which has, for lack of a better term, felt ultimately more mature and somewhat somber about it's inspiration from the real world than the WoD's more gonzo approach. That perhaps it is better to touch upon those events and worldwide tragedies that have recently happened in that series more. Not as fodder for supernatural elements but as it relates to the setting being based on the real world. On the other hand the WoD has a history of being a socially and politically vocal game series. The message hasn't always been presented well(WoD: Gypsy) but on occasion it has worked(The look at the Shoah in Wraith). But all the games dealt with social issues. Vampire deals a lot with class struggles and literal leeches on society as metaphor. Werewolf and environmentalism, Mage and the coexistence of various ideologies,etc. So CAN it be done and is there precedence? Sure. But I don't necessarily think that is equivalent to a duty to HAVE to. It's a tough position to put writers in so I'm ok whatever they decide as artists.

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