Healing Crippling Damage for Dummies

[Isator Levi]

Well, yes, but most animals are invertebrates, so of course most animals capable of regeneration should be, too.

The point there was more about the anatomical requirements that might be involved, rather than the statistics.

It's a lot less metabolically taxing for a worm or a starfish to regenerate portions of its anatomy than it would be for most vertebrates.

Of course, the regeneration of digits distal to the nail bed is observed not just in some mammals, but specifically in humans. One can argue whether regeneration of a limb is fundamentally distinct from that minor regeneration of the tips of a limb or an extrapolation of such regeneration.

Well, specify to me what digits distal to the nail bed refers to.

Similarly, regeneration in salamanders seems to closely follow the mechanisms of standard embryological development; insofar as a human grew and developed the limb once, is it alien or just an extrapolation to do it a second time?

That's why I referred to things involving stem cells.

And hell, a fully developed human body does retain some stem cells in a manner that allows certain regenerations. Hair follicles, for one.

In cases where it doesn't, the differentiation that cells undergo in the course of developing from a foetus significantly complicates the proposition. I don't really think that's reversible in existing cells, or in cell replication.

[Bladewind]

I'd allow the regeneration of crippling injuries as part of a package deal like the 2nd edition charm Final Ray of Light.

If you're going to rise from death (I know metaphysically you don't actually die but close enough) like a phoenix, regaining your hand is pretty reasonable proposition and from a mechanical perspective the costs associated with something like that should prevent someone going "there goes my hand, time to get myself killed so it grows back".

[Verzio]

You say "animals regrow limbs", when it's a lot more accurate to say that some animals regrow limbs. Most of them are invertebrates, for one thing, with some significantly different structures in cell and gross anatomy.

Well, yes, but most animals are invertebrates, so of course most animals capable of regeneration should be, too. There are a number of species vertebrate with limb regeneration, though they're all amphibians of the order Caudata (salamanders).

Of course, the regeneration of digits distal to the nail bed is observed not just in some mammals, but specifically in humans. One can argue whether regeneration of a limb is fundamentally distinct from that minor regeneration of the tips of a limb or an extrapolation of such regeneration. Similarly, regeneration in salamanders seems to closely follow the mechanisms of standard embryological development; insofar as a human grew and developed the limb once, is it alien or just an extrapolation to do it a second time?

[Isator Levi]

(Like helmets and numerous other subjects, Exalted plays faster and looser with handedness, going more off the Rule of Cool than a more realism-focused game might.)

Well... a -1 penalty for the off-hand may be less severe than one might expect of real life, but I would say that it's a good deal more substantive than helmets having no mechanical significance whatsoever.

Ambidextrous being an actual Merit suggests to me that there is something substantive in the specific declaration that a character can use both hands equally.

[TheCountAlucard]

I'd argue that the main disadvantage that Jaime Lannister has going for him is not that his right hand is missing, so much that he spent decades training exclusively with his right hand, and now it's missing. Learning to fight as a leftie takes quite a bit more than just flip-flopping the movements you'd learned as a youth; I wouldn't expect him to be as good with his left as he was with his right without years more training.

(Like helmets and numerous other subjects, Exalted plays faster and looser with handedness, going more off the Rule of Cool than a more realism-focused game might.)

[Sorcerous Overlord]

Nothing keeps a one armed person from being a master of Single Point Shining into the Void.

This is literally the first character I designed for 3e! Falling Knife lost his right arm and left eye when his sworn brother acquired the legendary blade Sable Heart's Ambition, which gives the wielder a Defining Tie of "Others will try to take Sable Heart's Ambitionfrom you by force or deception". Falling Knife uses a broken blade (mechanically a dagger) and had to relearn the martial arts for his left hand. He's totally not a rip off of the an all time super famous wuxia classic, I swear. Or a famous videogame character. Or the famous movie character.

You can absolutely make a character like this work as a primary concept.

[Darksider]

Ok, don't take this the wrong way, but EDIT CENSORED you for telling me I'm prejudiced. In your defense, you don't know me and didn't have much context for the discussion. But seriously, don't be a dick. We believe basically the same thing here, I'm sure. And I hope you'll be able to forgive my flare of language and anger at being judged, just like I forgive you for judging me.

Whether edited or not this statement is unacceptable and clearly a violation of the terms of use. You getting called out for expressing an ableist opinion doesn't give you the right to make a retaliatory statement. I'll be nice and let it go with a warning this time, don't do it again.

[The Wizard of Oz]

I think deliberately, because of the new "take a crippling effect to not die" power that everyone has. The same way Wholeness-Restoration Method has been powered down a ton.

[Childofthesun1]

Hm... My take on Resistance vs. Medicine, when it comes to crippling damage, is that there could be resistance charms stopping a wound from being "permanently" crippling; perhaps the bone was so strong they couldn't be cut. Because it isn't entirely severed, it falls under what could be "normally healed" for a Solar. Just that it takes X amount of time before it have healed far enough to become able to heal through the normal rule.

Still, a resistance would only improve the odds of not having the part amputated. The wound could still be crippling for a while, just as a broken arm can't be used while it is healing.

...and I really like the idea of powerful crafters and sorcerers being able to make a fully functioning prosthetic. It all puts it into manageable road bumps for at least Celestial Exalts.

And we have crippling-canceling charms already. Unbreakable Warriors Mastery definitely got a power down in 3e though.

[Lundgren]

Hm... My take on Resistance vs. Medicine, when it comes to crippling damage, is that there could be resistance charms stopping a wound from being "permanently" crippling; perhaps the bone was so strong they couldn't be cut. Because it isn't entirely severed, it falls under what could be "normally healed" for a Solar. Just that it takes X amount of time before it have healed far enough to become able to heal through the normal rule.

Still, a resistance would only improve the odds of not having the part amputated. The wound could still be crippling for a while, just as a broken arm can't be used while it is healing.

...and I really like the idea of powerful crafters and sorcerers being able to make a fully functioning prosthetic. It all puts it into manageable road bumps for at least Celestial Exalts.

[Childofthesun1]

Yeah, that's the one I meant. You roll... Int+Medicine, I think? Difficulty 5 maybe?

My point was people were talking about whether or not a Solar could regrow an arm, but in fact they can; via medicine. So the question really is: should Solars be able to regrow their arm through Resistance, as well as Medicine.

I'm sure you read my answer to that somewhere in this mess.

[The Wizard of Oz]

You mean the medicine charm, or is there another I'm not aware of?

Yeah, that's the one I meant. You roll... Int+Medicine, I think? Difficulty 5 maybe?

My point was people were talking about whether or not a Solar could regrow an arm, but in fact they can; via medicine. So the question really is: should Solars be able to regrow their arm through Resistance, as well as Medicine.

[Childofthesun1]

It generally takes months (depends on your rolls), but Piff (the OP) was happy for it to take years, so I guess that's not an issue.

I wasn't aware of this. Is this a Stamina Resistance roll? I wonder if there's regenerative charm space to hang off of this fact? It would mean that Solars can clearly regenerate better with skill.


Sorry for the triple post. Phone can't multi-reply.

[Childofthesun1]

Wholeness-Restoring Meditation speaks on the topic, specifically.

You mean the medicine charm, or is there another I'm not aware of?

[Childofthesun1]

Guest

I don't mind language, I have myself had to moderate my posts quite a bit after being the target of a few moderations by the community management. So, personally you're forgiven. But I would advise a bit more restrain on the future, if you don't want to be formally chastised by those who can do that.

One thing I would like you to pay attention to is that I didn't call you prejudiced. I believe people are far too complex to be judged through a forum.

I called your thoughts and views on the subject prejudiced. Because the way you expressed them are indicative of prejudice.

Now, I don't see anyone here arguing that disabilities are "good". I'm pretty sure most anybody would rather live in a regular body, if that was a real choice.

I understand not wanting to deal with the ramifications of permanent body damage. I myself never played a character with disabilities, it doesn't appeal to me.

But there are many alternatives to remedy the condition, and those were offered throughout the thread.

But you seemed to not be satisfied with those and started arguing that not having disabilities was a sort of bar to be cleared for a "real Solar" experience. That is where I strongly disagree with you. The way you tried to make your case for Solar regeneration of limbs was simply a very bad way to go about it. That is all that I'm arguing.

So... I'm not saying you are a good or bad person. I don't know you. I just called out your arguments for what I perceive them as.

"Your predjudiced views" is significantly harder than "calling out my arguments for what you perceive them as". I am a vague aggregate of my views after all. I hope you understand why I took that personally. Regardless, I appreciate the explanation.

Anyways, we argued like adults and I think came to an amicable understanding. That's all I really care about. All due respect to mods of course, they do their jobs for free after all. But we have enough difficulty understanding each other through screens and text that I find using anything other than conversational english really hampers understanding.


So I'm baffled that with all Solars are capable of, all the reality bending shenanigans, amputation is their one, non-natively-solvable weakness. And for beings of superlative skill, it's such a massive one, too! They have native healing, but it just isn't enough for limbs for some reason.

Now, that's just my point of view. There have been some excellent arguments all around. I just remain unconvinced that even if healing a wound and an amputation are different on a biological level, they really aren't on a story level especially when magic is involved. Like, how has no Solar found a way to deal with this issue with Resistance? It's just the one feat of healing Resistance can't handle? Hole in the chest, organ damage, broken bones, that's fine, but we draw the line at restoring the human body to it's natural shape to allow them to practice their skills as they know them? That's so bizarre to me.

Anyways, I think you all get my point, so I'll drop the subject unless pressed for further discussion.