How to Put a Band-Aid on Infernals

[HK-87]

So we all know that 2.5 breaks Infernals wide open, and that the charm set is broken in some really awful ways that can't really be fixed without completely rewriting the charmset. But are there any patches you've ever thought of that could alleviate some of these issues? I was wondering about things like "giving all yozis the 'favored' EXP discount" to increase the flexibility of available builds.

[SurlySeraph]

One of the key problems is that when Infernals was written, the only defense everyone wanted was a perfect. So every Yozi's got a perfect, but only Malfeas and Adorjan have non-perfect defenses.

This is easy to fix.

[Epimetheus]

One of the key problems is that when Infernals was written, the only defense everyone wanted was a perfect. So every Yozi's got a perfect, but only Malfeas and Adorjan have non-perfect defenses.

This is easy to fix.

The only defense that was worth a damn was a perfect so yeah you pretty much had to have a perfect or you were screwed unless you never used artifacts or charms.

[Jen]

Someone suggest every Yozi should have soak charms on the old forum and it spiraling into "Infernal can't be stronger than Solar!" madness.

[Epimetheus]

Someone suggest every Yozi should have soak charms on the old forum and it spiraling into "Infernal can't be stronger than Solar!" madness.

Honestly the issue is how appropriate it is. Some should have soak others should have dodge. Honestly, I think SHLIHN should be the only yozi with functional Parrying capabilities.

[Daffiroth]

Pretend Infernals don't exist. That fixes quite a lot of things very nicely.

[Oramus]

Pretend Infernals don't exist. That fixes quite a lot of things very nicely.

Like amputating someone's arm to stop the papercut on their finger from bothering them. I mean, yes, it works, but it's highly unsatisfactory and you're missing out on something pretty awesome.

[Omicron]

Sort all Infernal Charms into ability trees!

*ducks for cover*

[While My Guitar]

Sort all Infernal Charms into ability trees!

*ducks for cover*

This is about putting a Band-Aid on them, what you are suggesting is reconstructive surgery.

[Dezeroth]

I would say pretty much fluff up some parry, soak and dodge charms for the yozis

and as far as swlihn being the only one to have a parry charm malfeas parries with his face

[Jen]

Someone make these on the old forum, I remember that Revlid also have some Faith + Sand soak charms for Cece, and the old wiki also have some penalties-negator charms too IIRC.

Guile-Spun Shadow Flesh

Cost: — (+2m) ; Mins: Essence 2; Type: Permanent
Keywords: None
Duration: Permanent
Prerequisite Charms: Witness to Darkness

The Ebon Dragon is not merely Creation's ultimate liar but Creation's ultimate lie. Upon learning this charm the Infernal's body becomes the impossible stuff of material absence, it no longer draws its resilience from substance or physical might but from the Infernal's ability to fool the world into believing he exists. The Infernal's soak is now calculated using their Manipulation attribute instead of Stamina. Furthermore for a cost of 2m the Infernal may add (Essence + Dodge) to their bashing and lethal soak for the duration of a single attack, if the Infernal activates this power while in direct sunlight the true nature of what they have become is exposed for all to see. The charm becomes obvious as the Infernal is revealed to be nothing more than a walking, talking abyss with a human shape, pitch black from head to toe (save perhaps for glowing eyes at the player's discretion), the Infernal is shown not so much to resist damage as to absorb the force of a blow into the void they have become.

Mocking Futile Heroics

Cost: +1m ; Mins: Essence 2; Type: Reflexive
Keywords: Combo-OK, Obvious
Duration: Instant
Prerequisite Charms: Guile-Spun Shadow Flesh

The Ebon Dragon is a wretched coward who would prefer not to be struck at all, yet as much as it pains him to admit it this isn't always possible, even for him. Nevertheless he finds consolation when the finest efforts of Creation's heroes leave barely a scratch on him, allowing the Shadow of All Things to revel in their failure, disappointment and despair. Every mote spend on this charm removes one die from the post-soak damage of an attack against the Infernal, to a minimum of one die. Use of this charm causes writhing shadows and oily blackness to sprout from the fresh wound before they seamlessly knit the flesh back together. It is considered customary for the Infernal to taunt their adversary afterwards.

If the attacker's Dodge MDV is lower than the number of motes spent on this defence the attacker's confidence is shattered causing them to suffer a -2 internal penalty to all actions for the remainder of the scene. Resisting this unnatural emotion effect costs one Willpower.

Armoured in Corruption

Cost: 5m ; Mins: Essence 2; Type: Reflexive
Keywords: Combo-OK
Duration: One Scene
Prerequisite Charms: Guile-Spun Shadow Flesh

When the Ebon Dragon finds he has no choice but to enter battle he always does so with neither armour nor shield, he does not do this out of some sense of valour (the very concept being anathema to his craven heart) but because the foul miasma of degradation that surrounds him is the only defence he needs. All attacks against the Infernal have their minimum damage reduced by up to two dice for the duration of this charm unless the attack incorporates a holy effect.

Furthermore while this charm is active if the infernal is attacked with a mundane weapon it is destroyed within the tenth step of the attack's resolution regardless of whether or not it hit the Infernal or inflicted any damage; the wielder might have suffered a sudden lapse in competence that caused them to critically mishandle the weapon, perhaps the weapon itself finally succumbed to a fatal yet unnoticed flaw or in extreme cases it might even have begun to spontaneously rust and decay.

[Limited Reagent]

Sort all Infernal Charms into ability trees!

*ducks for cover*

I was ligit going to suggest making a few Infernal-only Charm trees that stem from no Yozi, maybe even with Ability mins, that cover the basics that the Yozi sets lack. Sort of like the heretical Charms, but less aggravating to get. That way you don't have Yozi that shouldn't necessarily have certain types of combat Charms with them (preserving Yozi flavor), but the Infernals themselves are fully covered.

[Saur Ops Specialist]

This is about putting a Band-Aid on them, what you are suggesting is reconstructive surgery.

Some of the trees line of quite well with reconstruction, though. You can put a lot of Cecelyne into Bureaucracy, Linguistics and Socialize (so much so, in fact, that she should have really been the patron of the Eclipse-analog for Infernals rather than the Ebon Dragon), Malfeas has lots of Presence and Resistance.

Of course, some things would need major reconstruction, like Mind-Hand Manipulation.

[ZeroRegistry]

Malfeas can probably put a soak build as is.

[Morangias]

An idea that's much quicker than moving the Charms around until they form coherent Ability trees:

Go through each Charm in sequence and assign an Ability to it without altering it's placement in the tree. Make it so Charm costs are based not on favored Yozi, but favored Ability.

This makes the Yozis into theme-based "Charm clouds", not unlike the task-based clouds of Alchemical Exalted. Anyone shooting for a specific effect may be forced to buy a few non-favored prerequisites, but he can get all the stuff he really needs for favored cost regardless of Yozi.

Admittedly, it's just a rough, untested idea.