To be a hero, or to be human?

[Accelerator]

It can also be read as a character who cares less about that homeland. Certainly, I would find the demand in terms of getting epic poems to be a red flag.

But I couldn't say what the sifu's player intends for the character's motives and priorities.

Maybe the Sifu wants the monk to use her powers for good, and to carry out widespread assistance and help, so tried to send her off?

[Isator Levi]

The Sifu is literally telling her to leave. Meaning that the Sifu believes that the valley will be OK in the meantime.

It can also be read as a character who cares less about that homeland. Certainly, I would find the demand in terms of getting epic poems to be a red flag.

But I couldn't say what the sifu's player intends for the character's motives and priorities.

[Uknown DarkLord]

[USER="177"]
The real issue for my monk comes down to responsibility. Is her greater responsibility to her valley and the people and spirits who live there, or is it to Creation and it’s problems?

Her sifu (not WiFi) told her to go out and don’t come back until there are epic poems about her to share. Her party does have a responsibility to stop this rogue Sidereal and save Creation, and she has an outstanding promise to fulfill towards her Abyssal girlfriend. She’s going to leave the valley, but how can she do so with a clear conscience?

The Sifu is literally telling her to leave. Meaning that the Sifu believes that the valley will be OK in the meantime.

Now of course it is ok to have some hand wringing as your character leaves, and some trepidation that all will be OK while you're away from the valley. But at the same time, there's tremendous responsibility to stop the rogue Siddy.

Chalk it up to, "I'd rather not leave, but I will return as soon as possible."

[Isator Levi]

However, in a fantasy setting such as Exalted, where souls literally and provably exist, I don't think my take of wanting Exaltation to be more spiritual enlightenment than external power up is a bad one?

It's not bad, but it's never been how the game presented Exaltation, so it's not really something to get hung up on.

Especially when advising another person who doesn't share those priorities.

'We're more than the sum of our parts' really shouldn't be that out there a belief, it doesn't even really imply any kind of strong religious belief, does it?

It doesn't, but it does imply that recognising that the parts still exist.

A person is more than the sum of their parts, and yet will still die very quickly if their heart stops pumping, or a clot blocks blood flow to many parts of their brain. Virtually every part of you is intertwined and interdependent, there's no aspect that can be isolated and declared non Grata without consequence.

The statement that one's chemical makeup and pathways are irrelevant to one's core identity do not validate the self, they perpetuate ignorance about it by refusal to perceive all of its influences. If there's anything transcendent about a person (and I believe there is) it's evidently not something that can remotely dictate action devoid of mood or habit or other things found in neural pathways.

Certainly, Essence Fever is not operating in a setting that acts as though there is a dichotomy between body and soul; souls exist, but Gnostic contempt for the flesh does not. There's a good deal more of things deriving from some Asian spiritual systems, in which material and immaterial are intertwined and interdependent.

Hence Exalted power manifesting through Abilities and Attributes. Exaltation is not going to be purely transcendent when it needs to flow through the limbs and the breath.

Is her greater responsibility to her valley and the people and spirits who live there, or is it to Creation and it’s problems?

Creation and its problems are so big, a single person might crack under the strain of them. There's a reason that there was a Deliberative. In the absence of one, a person can't fairly have it held against them to prioritize.

She’s going to leave the valley, but how can she do so with a clear conscience?

It sounds like she can't. That seems to me to be something to lean into as a source of character conflict; being troubled and dissatisfied for having left something behind.

Of course, if the intention is to not be that anymore, development towards that seems simple; if the character is driven by compassion, then her compassion was less driven by things distant and abstract than it is by people who are right in front of her. This is arguably less about the scope of Exalted then it is about somebody who would already want to do good, and just needs a push out of her comfort zone to get the ball rolling.

[TheCountAlucard]

As Sticks said, this is an effectively endless argument, since it's a contest between strict physicality and things which can not be proven. However, in a fantasy setting such as Exalted, where souls literally and provably exist, I don't think my take of wanting Exaltation to be more spiritual enlightenment than external power up is a bad one?

Just as a reminder, if a person soul literally, provably exists in the Exalted setting, then it’s part of that person, just as your real-world brain chemicals are part of you.

If your Essence is telling you to go out and do stuff, that’s from you. It’s your Essence.

[Croakamancer]

TheCountAlucard, you’re citing an example of proving a negative to justify continuing to argue with Croakamancer. It’s not helpful and it just makes you seem like somebody who looks to pick arguments.

The real issue for my monk comes down to responsibility. Is her greater responsibility to her valley and the people and spirits who live there, or is it to Creation and it’s problems?

Her sifu (not WiFi) told her to go out and don’t come back until there are epic poems about her to share. Her party does have a responsibility to stop this rogue Sidereal and save Creation, and she has an outstanding promise to fulfill towards her Abyssal girlfriend. She’s going to leave the valley, but how can she do so with a clear conscience?

Clarify all you want Sticks, you won't convince me Lou-Khan isn't secretly the world's first and deadliest LOLCat.

Honestly, the answer to your question is simply 'have a plan'. You want a path forward with a clear conscience, that's fine, you just need to do... something. There's a bunch of potential resolutions to this situation. Start giving the valley some teachings of your own, leave Wind there to watch over it (after giving him a good talking to and setting him straight), get A Very Handsome And Dashing Sorcerer to try and use a Working to make the Valley harder to access from the outside.. So long as you make an effort to come up with some kind of long term plan to keep the valley safe, leaving with a clear conscience is fairly reasonable.

You just need the will to act. The will to accept that things may have to change a little to keep people safe.That takes a little effort IC, but it's good character conflict IMO.

[Croakamancer]

If they're irrelevant, then why did Clophiroth have to get them replaced? If who I am is irrespective of the chemicals my brain produces, then how is it that so many people who suffer head injuries come away from it changed?

Sure, you can believe in souls and whatnot, but so far no one's been able to prove that you aren't made up of the things that make up your body.

As Sticks said, this is an effectively endless argument, since it's a contest between strict physicality and things which can not be proven. However, in a fantasy setting such as Exalted, where souls literally and provably exist, I don't think my take of wanting Exaltation to be more spiritual enlightenment than external power up is a bad one? 'We're more than the sum of our parts' really shouldn't be that out there a belief, it doesn't even really imply any kind of strong religious belief, does it?

[TheCountAlucard]

The real issue for my monk comes down to responsibility. Is her greater responsibility to her valley and the people and spirits who live there, or is it to Creation and it’s problems?

I mean, that’s up to you, isn’t it?

On the one hand, your valley and the spirits are part of Creation. It could very well be argued that changing the world starts at home.

But on the other hand, if this single Sidereal is literally a threat to the continued existence of the entire world, then letting them succeed would by definition be a threat to the continued existence of your home as well.

But back on the first hand, do you think this is a problem you can meaningfully help solve? Because if you feel that it’s beyond you, there’s lots of heroes in Creation.

But then again, “the scales might be tipped by a single grain of rice” and all that.

———————————

One time I was playing a Dawn Caste brawler; his buddy, an Eclipse, had been spirited away to the Demon City (or so we believed) by two Green Sun Princes. My character really wanted to help, but didn’t know the first thing about demons or the Demon City, so he attended a fighting tournament instead of going after them.

He figured since the tournament was sponsored by a high-profile god, he could get an audience with the god if he won the tournament and see if the god had anything he could lend my brawler to help with his Eclipse situation.

(It was rumored the god had a magic key that could take the user instantly into the Demon City, but when I won, he ended up giving me armor and bracers and told my my strength of arm was all I needed.)

Of course, once we found out that the Eclipse was still being held in Creation, we hauled ass after him, had a climactic battle with the Infernals, and our own Zenith put his daiklave through the Eclipse for reasons.

[Sticks]

TheCountAlucard, you’re citing an example of proving a negative to justify continuing to argue with Croakamancer. It’s not helpful and it just makes you seem like somebody who looks to pick arguments.

The real issue for my monk comes down to responsibility. Is her greater responsibility to her valley and the people and spirits who live there, or is it to Creation and it’s problems?

Her sifu (not WiFi) told her to go out and don’t come back until there are epic poems about her to share. Her party does have a responsibility to stop this rogue Sidereal and save Creation, and she has an outstanding promise to fulfill towards her Abyssal girlfriend. She’s going to leave the valley, but how can she do so with a clear conscience?

[TheCountAlucard]

Not what I meant. My whole point was that hormones are irrelevant to who you are.

If they're irrelevant, then why did Clophiroth have to get them replaced? If who I am is irrespective of the chemicals my brain produces, then how is it that so many people who suffer head injuries come away from it changed?

They're a physical factor to be dealt with that can affect your thoughts and actions but who you are goes beyond that IMO.

Sure, you can believe in souls and whatnot, but so far no one's been able to prove that you aren't made up of the things that make up your body.

[Croakamancer]

It´s nice to hear that after I started my Hormone Replacement Therapy and started an intake of foreign hormones, I stopped being me, and neither my actions or my feelings were mine.

Very very nice.

Not what I meant. My whole point was that hormones are irrelevant to who you are. They're a physical factor to be dealt with that can affect your thoughts and actions but who you are goes beyond that IMO

I guess that's the debate. I say Exaltation is something inherent to you that transcends other factors, while I feel the current canon leans more towards portraying Exaltation as external, through the essence fever thing

[Clophiroth]

It´s nice to hear that after I started my Hormone Replacement Therapy and started an intake of foreign hormones, I stopped being me, and neither my actions or my feelings were mine.


Very very nice.

[Saur Ops Specialist]

Introduced is introduced. Moreover, Holden said otherwise; I'm having trouble finding the post, but he actually discussed at one point how he himself assumed it was an editing error, until he talked to Grabowski during the development of Ex3.

That's still setting aside how it was presented as doing what Limit does now. The vague concept might have been introduced, but judging by the text of 1e and 3e, 3e's Essence fever is different under the hood.

[Uknown DarkLord]

I suppose the issue is that if we do succeed in saving the day, putting his monastery back where it should be, destroying or trapping the High Priest Not to Be Described (aka the Elder Heirophant, aka the Tcho-tcho Lama of Leng), then this character has no motivation to continue adventuring. He will, after all, just want to go back to being a high priest.

This is fine by me, because I'll just bring back my old Lunar character.

But a lot of people wouldn't want to do this. The issue with a reluctant hero is it's fine as long as there's stuff pulling them back into heroism (which means they can't be too reluctant).

But then, Alazar has no-one telling him he's an amazing prophet-hero. I guess the question is how well the character resists the blandishments of flatterers and stays true to their vows/realises they have a responsibility to the world and must sacrifice their simple life.

If people don't want their character to just retire, sounds like it is conversation with the ST to create a hook or story to keep their character out of retirement. Something to motivate them where going out will further protect the monastery than staying around.

[The Wizard of Oz]

All my simple monk wants to do is hang out with his brothers, tend vegetables, do morning and evening prayers, sacrifice captives to satiate the elder gods dreaming in the Void, copy texts, do some light reading, meditate, etc.

Normal simple monk stuff.

But unfortunately his monastery's been stolen, his brothers turned into mad cannibals, and the ancient horror trapped beneath the monastery is now free (and... dealing drugs?).
So he has to go stop it.

But he doesn't go on about how he's a Solar, saviour of the world, etc, etc, because he still just thinks of himself as a normal monk.
He really just wants to go back to his normal life. He'd rather not be trying to save the land, he'd rather go to the library and read. But you've got to do what you've got to do.

I suppose the issue is that if we do succeed in saving the day, putting his monastery back where it should be, destroying or trapping the High Priest Not to Be Described (aka the Elder Heirophant, aka the Tcho-tcho Lama of Leng), then this character has no motivation to continue adventuring. He will, after all, just want to go back to being a high priest.

This is fine by me, because I'll just bring back my old Lunar character.

But a lot of people wouldn't want to do this. The issue with a reluctant hero is it's fine as long as there's stuff pulling them back into heroism (which means they can't be too reluctant).

But then, Alazar has no-one telling him he's an amazing prophet-hero. I guess the question is how well the character resists the blandishments of flatterers and stays true to their vows/realises they have a responsibility to the world and must sacrifice their simple life.