What did the mountainfolk and dragon kings stand to gain from the Rebellion?

[mark2]

what is the point of risking everything just so you can replace distant overlords with close ones? (and in the case of the dragon kings very close indeed)

[prototype00]

I think it was who they owed direct fealty to that tipped the scales.

The Dragon Kings were devoted (still are) to The Unconquered Sun (I think this was the case even before the Rebellion), and the Mountainfolk were thralls/creations of Autocthon, both of whom were on the side of the gods during the Rebellion.

[pcontop]

The same could be said of any colonial rebellion. Having the power closer to home is being able to influence it more.

[AnubisXy]

They likely also figured they would have a much larger role in the world after the war, since in the early stages it was probably impossible to foresee how dominant the Exalted Host and humans in general were going to end up being.

[Mizu]

Perhaps they were under the impression they would have more say in the rule of the world then they ended up getting? Or the Primordials were just such awful rulers that they thought 'the humans literally could not be worse so **** it'.

[mark2]

The same could be said of any colonial rebellion. Having the power closer to home is being able to influence it more.

Has it ever happened though? I.e rebelling so that another slave group can be your new masters? In real life i mean. The best i can think is Washington promising slaves freedom if they fight against the british, but the dragon kings/mountain folk were never the literal slaves of the primordials. Based on every book that has ever been published,anyway

[mark2]

They likely also figured they would have a much larger role in the world after the war, since in the early stages it was probably impossible to foresee how dominant the Exalted Host and humans in general were going to end up being.

Then why not switch sides later on? Realpolitik and all that

[Blackwell]

Then why not switch sides later on? Realpolitik and all that

The Dragon Kings continued to be respected allies and friends of the gods and Exalted after the war. They weren't slaves or even exactly "subordinate", so much as so nearly wiped out that they were not a viable power bloc anymore, even before you consider the vast might of the Exalted.

The Mountain Folk were metaphysically lobotomized and literally forced underground by their creator, because the Solars and their patron feared they would do exactly what you're talking about. I don't think the Jadeborn were expecting that outcome when they helped the Exalted. Note they didn't even really *fight* in the war to any great extent, they mostly supplied weapons and materiel.

[Mizu]

Has it ever happened though? I.e rebelling so that another slave group can be your new masters? In real life i mean. The best i can think is Washington promising slaves freedom if they fight against the british, but the dragon kings/mountain folk were never the literal slaves of the primordials. Based on every book that has ever been published,anyway

Everyone was a slave to the Primordials from the lowliest insect or beast to the sentient mortal races to the highest of the gods, they not a single one had any sort of rights protecting them from being abused by their Primordial creator kings that we have heard of in any edition. Or if such laws saying that certain servants had actual inalienable rights as opposed to the fleeting fickle protection of currently being favored that could be stripped from them at a whim I don't remember reading it anywhere.

Then why not switch sides later on? Realpolitik and all that

The primordial ones strike me as not being very likely to accept traitors back into the fold

[Blackwell]

The primordial ones strike me as not being very likely to accept traitors back into the fold

Akuma?

[Mizu]

Akuma?

People who find out the cost of being trusted after going traitor is getting your mind rearranged and losing your free will are unlikely to be interested in that kind of deal.

[AnubisXy]

Then why not switch sides later on? Realpolitik and all that

At least in Second Edition the Mountain Folk were geased after the war had already ended. And the Dragon Kings lost a massive amount of their numbers after many of their souls were utterly destroyed by the Primordials so simply due to the permanent and irrevocable losses they suffered during the war, they no longer had the numbers to be in a position of dominance in the new world they had helped to create.

Who knows about 3rd edition though.

[mark]

The Mountain Folk were metaphysically lobotomized and literally forced underground by their creator, because the Solars and their patron feared they would do exactly what you're talking about. I don't think the Jadeborn were expecting that outcome when they helped the Exalted. Note they didn't even really *fight* in the war to any great extent, they mostly supplied weapons and materiel.

It just seems so naive to expect anything much better. Best case scenario life goes on more or less as before

[QUOTE=Blackwell;n1449540]

The Dragon Kings continued to be respected allies and friends of the gods and Exalted after the war. They weren't slaves or even exactly "subordinate", so much as so nearly wiped out that they were not a viable power bloc anymore, even before you consider the vast might of the Exalted.

Exactly. What was there to gain? They kept doing their thing. Why risk nothing for minimal gain. The Exalted at least rushed everything for everything

Everyone was a slave to the Primordials from the lowliest insect or beast to the sentient mortal races to the highest of the gods, they not a single one had any sort of rights protecting them from being abused by their Primordial creator kings that we have heard of in any edition. Or if such laws saying that certain servants had actual inalienable rights as opposed to the fleeting fickle protection of currently being favored that could be stripped from them at a whim I don't remember reading it anywhere.


The primordial ones strike me as not being very likely to accept traitors back into the fold

If we stretch the word slavery that much then by that logic in any absolute monarchy everyone is the slave of the king. The dragon kings were mostly beneath the attention of the primordials
Sure they had the power to make them do anything (as did the solar deliberative) but seemed not to care about it

[Mizu]

If we stretch the word slavery that much then by that logic in any absolute monarchy everyone is the slave of the king. The dragon kings were mostly beneath the attention of the primordials
Sure they had the power to make them do anything (as did the solar deliberative) but seemed not to care about it

The way you say this makes it sound like a revelation to you that people living under a government where the head of state has absolute power and can do whatever they want are slaves. Why do you think there are so few countries left in the world that tolerate such nonsense as a leader with totally unchecked power? A slave is a slave even if they don't live somewhere they are likely to get their master's direct attention since it isn't like they need to be within arms reach to mandate abuses be rained upon you as amused them.

Yeah, they cared so little about it that they actively aided in a rebellion against them.

[nalak42]

It just seems so naive to expect anything much better. Best case scenario life goes on more or less as before

Yeah, but this was also not a thing that had happened before, so in a complete absence of prior history or evidence to the contrary the possibility of a better situation is not the worst concept. As also noted their patrons were in favor of their, so depending on what the individual faction was being asked to do the options would have also included potentially going into opposition of your patron.

Exactly. What was there to gain? They kept doing their thing. Why risk nothing for minimal gain. The Exalted at least rushed everything for everything

Not running afoul of the whims of the other Primordials. Honestly, going with the bit in 2e on how the other Primordials liked trashing Autochthon's stuff I would not be surprised if the Jadefolk were not occaisionaly targets, or at the least fellow sufferers of having their stuff broken.