What are the Dream-souled?

[Baaldam]

I think one I'm hoping for now is a way for a Hearteater to 'purify' their exaltation, or for a genuine Auroral to be brought into the world as they were somehow. But that's probably along the lines of an Abyssal or Infernal being cleansed too.

Good question indeed since while corrupted much like Abyssals or Infernals, what was done in turning Aurorals into Hearteaters could be considered more of a raw deal, more of a "Great Curse plus" in some ways than the making of a tool of the fallen Makers like those two groups.

Well, the devs has said before that they are not going to give us Auroral mechanics, so I assume that without having such there is no point in giving a way to purify the Hearteaters from their corruption. In should be noted that it was mentioned that the Hearteaters have interest with Uluiru, so maybe some of them believe that it could serve as a way to cleanse themselves in one way or another.

What shouldn't stop some creative folks there from extrapolating their own hypothetical Auroral charmset from "mirroring" Hearteater charms mixed in with some tinkering/guesswork from Adamant caste alchies tricks.




And now veering with things in a quite different direction....

Full name the Sovereigns of Uluiru, Terrestrial-level, resonant with adamant. To quote Vance's Discord posts:

They’re members of a royal family in a Northwestern kingdom, who descend into a subterranean cavern filled with a dead god’s blood in hope of surviving and Exalting

The Sovereign's deal is a bit weird. Cantata-of-the-Depths. the god who catalyzed the Exigence into the Sovereign's Exaltations, isn't the god whose blood fills that pool; he tapped into it to lend further power to his Exigents. The Sovereigns are one of those Exigents that blend the Essences of multiple deities, and have some backlash as a result.

The key clue is from the Hearteaters' end; they have a particular interest in something in the city of Uluiru, suggesting that said dead god was their patron.

Ok, maybe that's just my twisted mind playing tricks on me, but - northern kingdom whose subterranean depths hide caverns with the blood of a dead god/titan guarded by a host of supernatural beings empowered by it... anyone else gets a bit of Gethamane & Vodak parallels from this?

[Erinys]

So apparently the Exigents backer pdf is out? Are the details about the apocryphal Exalted out yet?

What are their castes/aspects? What martial arts and sorcery can they access? Are their Charms Ability-based, Attribute-based, or something else?

Just what is a Shadow? And what is the deal with Ketu?

Also are there any suggestions for when the apocryphals might have come into being (or been reawakened in the case of Hearteaters)? I was thinking it would make sense for Ketu to become interested in Creation when humanity survived the Balorian Crusade, and start gradually choosing Dream-Souled one at a time every few decades.

Anything about how many of each apocryphal type there are? Do Umbrals and Hearteaters reincarnate in the same way as Celestial Exalted? Do Dream-Souled reincarnate or breed more of themselves?

[Blaque]

So apparently the Exigents backer pdf is out? Are the details about the apocryphal Exalted out yet?

The entire manuscript was given during the Kickstarter, as noted in another thread. This included the Appendix.

What are their castes/aspects? What martial arts and sorcery can they access? Are their Charms Ability-based, Attribute-based, or something else?

They're Essence-based for simplicity sake. They are not listed with Castes or Aspects since they're meant to be more design seeds. If someone would wish to expand on them, that's kind of for them and said as much in the text.

Umbrals and Heart-Eaters can use up to Celestial Circle Sorcery and are "netural' with Martial Arts (no Mastery, no Terrestrilal, don't learn SMA). Dream-Souled can learn Terrestrial CIrcle Sorcery and deal with the Terrestrial keyword with Martial Arts. Nothing is said on their access to necromancy.

On Evocations: Hearteaters are Resonant with adamant and neutral with other materials, Umbrals Resonant with soulsteel and neutral with others, and Dream-Souled are neutral with moonsilver and Dissonant with other materials.

Just what is a Shadow? And what is the deal with Ketu?

The Shadow is how the Umbral Great Curse manfiests. It's basically a relfection of a character's negative emotions, doubts, anxieites, and so on manifested as a psychological construct that kind of wants to be in charge at expense of the Umbral Exalt. It is forged a bit from Nebiru's own hatred of the world and is kidn of fueld by the Incarna's remnants kind of super-charing their Great Curse in a way.

Ketu is an unknown entity of notable power in the Wyld who only understands and interacts with Creation through dreams. That's about it. It's kind of mysterious by design.

Also are there any suggestions for when the apocryphals might have come into being (or been reawakened in the case of Hearteaters)? I was thinking it would make sense for Ketu to become interested in Creation when humanity survived the Balorian Crusade, and start gradually choosing Dream-Souled one at a time every few decades.

Umbrals have always been there and are written as a rare-but-not-unheard of thing in Creation. Hearteaters were locked up for most of the First Age and started leaking out in the last few centuries. Dream-Souled it only says are kinda new, and not a lot is given on how new.

Anything about how many of each apocryphal type there are? Do Umbrals and Hearteaters reincarnate in the same way as Celestial Exalted? Do Dream-Souled reincarnate or breed more of themselves?

It's talked about in the text that it depends on the table, so numbers are given as ranges.

Dream-Souled: 25-100
Hearteaters: 200-400 Exaltations, 0-20 not locked-up.
Umbrals: 50-200

Dream-Souled Exaltations don't go to an inheritor. The Exaltation returns to Ketu, who incorperates it into what ever the hell Ketu does with it. So it generates them as-needed or has some process that sparks things like the Dragons I guess.

Hearteaters incarnate in one of two fashions. First, if a suitable Pawn exists in range when she dies, her Exaltation moves there. It might, in fact, destroy the Pawn's personaltiy and just straight hijack the body, allowing the Hearteater to persist in some fashion. If no proper host is around, when she dies her bones turn into opals and if a mortal contacts them, the Exaltation transfers to them. Once again, depending on the strength of will, as well as time, since the last incarnation of the Exaltation, the Hearteater could supplant or supplement the new Exalt's personalty.

Umbrals work more or less like other Celestial Exalted, since they well, are. Just generally going for folks with a lot of negative vibes to them.

[Erinys]

Thanks Blaque. It's really good to know the basics.

I forgot to ask earlier: Are Hearteaters creatures of darkness?
And do any of the new Exalted (incl. Getimians, Liminals, Architects, Sovereigns of Uluiru, new Infernals) have stated lifespans?

[TomDick&Harry]

Architects don't live any longer than mortals, but cease to age so long as they're inside their city. Sovereigns can live for centuries but the full extent isn't known - Queen Ulu was around 320 before she got killed - and they show age sooner than other Exalts on account of being patchworks.

Dream-Souled can live for a few centuries. Hearteaters are thought to live for at least a thousand years. Umbral lifespans are connected to how much of a hold their Shadow has over them - consistently higher Penumbra = a longer life.

[Critian Caceorte]

I forgot to ask earlier: Are Hearteaters creatures of darkness?

I don't think its ever stated, but probably, considering how they were all diced up by the other chosen for being monsters and had their remains imprisoned out in the Wyld. It could also be that this wasn't condoned by UCS, or whatever. Probably a table decision.

Umbrals are definitely stated to be creatures of darkness, and Dream-Souled could be Enemies of Fate (given how much they screw up Destiny and how much they annoy Sidereals) but also might not be.

[marin]

Umbrals are definitely stated to be creatures of darkness, and Dream-Souled could be Enemies of Fate (given how much they screw up Destiny and how much they annoy Sidereals) but also might not be.

I think the big factor in Dream-Souled being enemies of fate is that they're Exalted by a being from beyond Creation (which's how the Sids define Exalted enemies of fate, per Charting Fate's Course).

[Erinys]

Thanks.

So I guess the Umbrals are creatures of darkness because their god was Forbidden. If that's so it implies the Spoken would also be creatures of darkness.

[Blaque]

Thanks.

So I guess the Umbrals are creatures of darkness because their god was Forbidden. If that's so it implies the Spoken would also be creatures of darkness.

Kinda. Nebiru was also like, the god of darkness back in the day too. I think regardless of his betrayal or not, his nature kind of just by definition makes Umbrals so. Neptune was banished more for neutrality not hostilty to my gathering. So the Voice of the Trench and its Chosen are kind of not subject to that since well, they were enemies fo the Chosen, not Heaven or the light.

Kind of by all of this, this is probably while Heartaeaters aren't creatures of darkness. Aurora was dead and their Essences corrupted, but i'm pretty sure whatever makes osmething a creature of darkenss doesn't really apply to them. Theyw ere allies of the Exalted into the First Age. THey're just kind of horrific.

[FallenEco]

Honestly, the Apocryphal Exalted look a lot like different pieces of the Nocturnal fanslpat, (imprisioned traitor patron for Umbrals, Muses/Heralds for Aurals and too a lesser extent Dreamsouled) in that they touch on a lot of the same design space. Honestly, if Getimians were thrown in too...

It does make the now long gone Aurals seem a lot more interesting though. Hearteaters aren't intended to be a playable splat though, as they very much are written as villains. Why yes, I'm still going ahead with my "Doctor Who" ripoff Hearteater. "Fixing" the condition is the goal (may need to find out about Sovreigns then steal away into the Lake), but maybe I should draw upon some more...Master-mind elements when the curse takes me.
The fact that Regeneration/body theft is how Hearteaters "exalt" is diffinently an issue for entry. You are the bad guy, brainwashing and poessing people to survive.

And yet Umbrals are the ones that play with "you vs your darker self" as a theme.

[Blaque]

I kind of find the irony to that actually part of the appeal. The Hearteater struggle is being a monster. The Umbral struggle has a notable bit where your Shaodw like, sin't suicidal or anything. It just hates you. So the conflict is quite different. But that the more monsterous of the two are the ones with the beautiful light themes is pretty neat, IMHO.

[Isator Levi]

You are the bad guy, brainwashing and poessing people to survive.

I think it's possible to approach such a subject with about as much nuance as the things that Lunars do to acquire human shapes.

[FallenEco]

I think it's possible to approach such a subject with about as much nuance as the things that Lunars do to acquire human shapes.

Agreed, it is possible. But there was a deliberate decision to NOT go that way. Which is fine, despite the Devs and RAW, there is no game police going to arrest my table because we try to make Hearteaters work as heroes, albeit tragic heroes. Their portrayal in the book makes it very clear we are meant to see them as villains, oir at least monsters.
Other Exalts can do evil actions; heck splats like Abyssals and Infernals are built with that premise in mind. But there is no suggestion on how to do so for Hearteaters in a stable fashion. Which comes down to the flavour curse (with no mechanical weight atm) of needed to hollow out people and turn them, into Pawns.

Just a reminder; I do want to play one. They are my favorite Exalt in Exigents, even over the cannical ones. But keep in mind their current design space puts them closer to BtP than I imagine most people would be comfortable with. The fact that this is a corruption from being the artistic muse/heralds/leaders that they were as Aurals plays well into the unintentional tragic monsters is a big hook, but EVERYONE sees them as monster. More so than any other group.
They are Anathema that Lunars and Solars hunted from before the Usurpation, with good reason. They can only really be used in parties/circles that are entirely separated from this knowledge. Which means no Silver Pact or anyone who can call a Wild Hunt. Abyssals have more allies in the setting.

Umbrals and Dreamsouled are far and away easier to integrate.

[Blaque]

Something noted as missing in the current Appendix is actually the Great Curse of the different Apocryphals. I think that some more on the ways that the Curse manifests for them, notably for Dream-Souled and Hearteaters, I think can do a good job of solidfiying a bit of why they are at least perecieved how they are in setting.

I think a thing to also note is a Lunar can opt-out of the face-taking. They can even find other ways to get shapes that aren't violent. Or use Charms that don't focus on shapeshifting much. But as a person on one of the Discord servers said, Hearteaters are kind of obligate Minonmancers. And when that is like, drawing on media exmaples like Kilgrave from Jessica Jones as a potential inspiration, you gotta have some pretty delicate hands on that.

[Erinys]

Can you please briefly summarize what the Great Curse is like for Dream-Souled? For that matter, why would they be Cursed since they definitely didn't exist during the Primordial War? It doesn't seem plausible to me for Dream-Souled or Liminals to actually have the Curse (vs. some other White Wolfy drawback).