3E Deathlords

[Hermes12]

With Abyssals in the pipeline officially now, what do we know of the 3E deathlords already?

What are we hoping for?

Things that have stayed the same or things radically changed?

Will they become more distant and vague to not overshadow player characters or more fleshed out and nuances to allow different stories to use them in different ways?

All Ex solars or differences know?

will there be a focus on their subplot or more on how they can be antagonists, patrons to players.

will the be focussed on Underworld politics, creations politics or just a nihilistic dedication to oblivion.

Just a thread to share latest knowledge and personal preferences.

[AnubisXy]

I liked the earliest rendition of Deathlords, back in the First Edition corebook. There were hundreds, if not thousands of "deathlords" who were petty rulers, ruling over kingdoms of the dead. Their main focus was on the Underworld and none of them were all that interested in conquering Creation. The Mask of Winters was very much something an exception. Later the number of Deathlords was condensed down to 13 and they became the ghosts of ancient Solar Exalted who had all made deals with the Malfeans. Further, while in the corebook it made it explicit that raising armies to conquer Creation and plunge it into the Underworld was not the goal of the Deathlords, that actually turned out to be their goal.

I hope that the Deathlords are less innately antagonistic towards Creation. In the earlier editions it meant that you had little use for them outside of being an antagonist. Even if you worked with one as an ally, you knew eventually that Deathlord was going to turn on you in order to destroy the world. Being partial puppets of the Neverborn, they didn't really even have the option to not do that. I very much hope to see that change in 3rd edition, with some Deathlords still being antagonist towards the world, but others being possible allies.

In my own games, I have a number of "original" Deathlords. Deathlord is essentially a title for any powerful ruler in the Underworld. Some Deathlords the ghosts of Solar Exalted that made deals with the Malfeans, but there are others who are the ghosts of Lunars or Sidereal or Dragon Blooded. Some of Deathlords aren't even dead - one of them is a Third Circle Demon who escaped from Malfeas. Another is a still living Lunar Exalted. Another is a powerful Fair Folk that rules over a Shadowland that borders the Wyld. Further, many Deathlords actually work to support Creation to some degree. Creation is where new ghosts come from. Creation is where new grave goods come from. The better off Creation is, the better off the Underworld is.

Ultimately making the Deathlords (and by extension their minions) more focused on the Underworld instead of simply viewing the Underworld as a means towards destroying Creation will help set the Underworld up as setting in its own right, and make it more interesting to use.

[marin]

One thing Vance's mentioned is making it so working for a Deathlord is fun, rather than something that makes players immediately run for the hills. They're not exactly going to be good, but you should be able to understand working for them (see also the Lunar elders).

[Mockery]

Later the number of Deathlords was condensed down to 13 and they became the ghosts of ancient Solar Exalted who had all made deals with the Malfeans.

FWIW by the time of release of the 1e corebook, the deathlords were already determined privately to be the shades of Solars. The art book included with the limited edition pretty much explicitly calls them out as such.

[JohnDoe244]

I liked the earliest rendition of Deathlords, back in the First Edition corebook.

Tiny, nitpick:

Deathlords explicitly got their power from the Malfeans in 1E Core, and there were (poetically) 100 of them.

Otherwise, I agree.

****

I did a fan write-up of the Princess Magnificent With Lips of Coral and Robes of Black Feathers as a Lunar ghost for Exalted Essence:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ELYxuPU_1FJm1VrEKHhm4rmECmPFoMCu/view?usp=share_link

[Katana1515]

I'm curious if anyone has had a go at statting up a Deathlord for 3e? Not too sure where I would start, though I definitely would want something less cumbursome than 'Give them all the Solar/Abyssal charms and sorcery you can think of.' Half the point of Quick Characters is that you can condense multiple charm effects together to simulate the same effects without burning out the Storytellers brain.

On the narrative front, I do like the 'Vengeful Solar Ghosts' backstory, but don't feel it needs to be the source of every single Deathlord. I think theirs space for opening up the number of creatures carrying that title from 13 to 'a few dozen mighty entities' of which some of the most famous and potent (at least in Creation) are the same crazy characters we have learned to love/loath through the editions.

[Zale]

I'm curious if anyone has had a go at statting up a Deathlord for 3e? Not too sure where I would start, though I definitely would want something less cumbursome than 'Give them all the Solar/Abyssal charms and sorcery you can think of.' Half the point of Quick Characters is that you can condense multiple charm effects together to simulate the same effects without burning out the Storytellers brain.

On the narrative front, I do like the 'Vengeful Solar Ghosts' backstory, but don't feel it needs to be the source of every single Deathlord. I think theirs space for opening up the number of creatures carrying that title from 13 to 'a few dozen mighty entities' of which some of the most famous and potent (at least in Creation) are the same crazy characters we have learned to love/loath through the editions.

A friend of mine and I did a stab at a Princess Magnificent write up.

[JohnDoe244]

I love how the Princess Magnificent is the most started Deathlord so far.

[marin]

FWIW by the time of release of the 1e corebook, the deathlords were already determined privately to be the shades of Solars. The art book included with the limited edition pretty much explicitly calls them out as such.

Vance's said that for 3e, while the Deathlords are all vengeful ghosts of the Usurpation, they're not all Solars (though they're not locking any of them to a particular Exalt type). Also, the writing team aren't pinning down a specific number this time - the classic set are still around, and they may add one or two, but the actual number can range from them being the only ones to as many more as an individual table sees fit.

Also also, the Deathlords aren't exactly in on this whole 'destroying Creation' thing, but they very much have to at least look like they are, because they're not taking chances after what happened to the Lion.

[Saur Ops Specialist]

Vance's said that for 3e, while the Deathlords are all vengeful ghosts of the Usurpation, they're not all Solars (though they're not locking any of them to a particular Exalt type). Also, the writing team aren't pinning down a specific number this time - the classic set are still around, and they may add one or two, but the actual number can range from them being the only ones to as many more as an individual table sees fit.

Also also, the Deathlords aren't exactly in on this whole 'destroying Creation' thing, but they very much have to at least look like they are, because they're not taking chances after what happened to the Lion.

Was simply not having the Neverborn connected so closely with them not on the table, then? Because with all the other sweeping changes of 3e, I don't know that tinkering with the relationship of the Neverborn to have healthier Abyssals would stand out too much. Everyone's learned that introducing existential threats to Creation and making them desire the Killfuck Soulshitter outcome reduces the relevance of other parts of the setting, or is at least familiar with it. Quite frankly, I'm surprised at the lack of the clean sweep here.

[Leliel]

Was simply not having the Neverborn connected so closely with them not on the table, then? Because with all the other sweeping changes of 3e, I don't know that tinkering with the relationship of the Neverborn to have healthier Abyssals would stand out too much. Everyone's learned that introducing existential threats to Creation and making them desire the Killfuck Soulshitter outcome reduces the relevance of other parts of the setting, or is at least familiar with it. Quite frankly, I'm surprised at the lack of the clean sweep here.

*looks at Heirs to the Shogunate*

Yeah, I think they accounted for that. The Silver Prince is explicitly someone who wants to build a utopia through cultural assimilation of everything into Skullstone. He is the kind of person who would take one look at Killfuck Soulshitter and quietly take out a bounty.

[marin]

Was simply not having the Neverborn connected so closely with them not on the table, then? Because with all the other sweeping changes of 3e, I don't know that tinkering with the relationship of the Neverborn to have healthier Abyssals would stand out too much. Everyone's learned that introducing existential threats to Creation and making them desire the Killfuck Soulshitter outcome reduces the relevance of other parts of the setting, or is at least familiar with it. Quite frankly, I'm surprised at the lack of the clean sweep here.

To sum up Vance's comments on the matter: as best the Deathlords can tell, the Neverborn seem to want Abyssals to act more in line with the chivalry of death rather than Killfuck Soulshitter - while in the long run their agenda is at odds with the continued existence of life, they don't want everything to die instantly and all at once, and they don't want simple 'kill kill kill' or mass murder. They want the living to know soul-crushing despair before they die, and Killfuck Soulshitter is at odds with that.

The Deathlords aren't operating on any sort of immediate timescale, but they at least need to look as if they're doing their jobs occasionally - they can't ignore whatever covenants they made with the Neverborn indefinitely.

[Isator Levi]

I'll admit, I would have preferred Deathlords to be defined as mighty ghosts who actually hate the living and want them to ultimately be subservient to the dead, in a way that would logically culminate in there eventually being no living at all (in the best case scenario), but at this point I can get on board with the idea that there are Deathlords who could be seen as having personal agendas totally unconcerned with what might be construed as tormenting or assaulting the living but are still bound by certain patronage obligations. I think the main thing it needs is a good presentation of the right sort of tension that creates.

[Saur Ops Specialist]

To sum up Vance's comments on the matter: as best the Deathlords can tell, the Neverborn seem to want Abyssals to act more in line with the chivalry of death rather than Killfuck Soulshitter - while in the long run their agenda is at odds with the continued existence of life, they don't want everything to die instantly and all at once, and they don't want simple 'kill kill kill' or mass murder. They want the living to know soul-crushing despair before they die, and Killfuck Soulshitter is at odds with that.

The Deathlords aren't operating on any sort of immediate timescale, but they at least need to look as if they're doing their jobs occasionally - they can't ignore whatever covenants they made with the Neverborn indefinitely.

Wanting people to know soul-crushing despair before they die is still well within Killfuck Soulshitter territory. You're not going to do it by being nice, unless you add in some kind of horrific twist about how or why you've been being "nice", kind of like Abridged Frieza contemplating what to do when immortal. The key thing is that the Neverborn are still lashing out at the living and demanding that their servants do the same, so one has to question how much really changes. Maybe it smooths off some of the rough edges like the opening comic of MoEP: Abyssals or certain "sins of life", but the obligations of the deathlords and deathknights are still compelling them to loom over the setting as existential threats.

[Yue Ryong]

I'm curious if anyone has had a go at statting up a Deathlord for 3e?.

The Sainted Physician did a Viking-themed Deathlord for the 2016 White Elephant.

I'm using it now for my game. Will probably be the final boss of the entire campaign, if it doesn't get sidelined by the Infernal currently corrupting the Dawn caste.