Wacking People With Street Sign is Not Allow: Not-Weapon Weapon Evocation

[Jen]

Soooooo, I like using weird stuffs as weapon, fish, rice paddle, butterfly cage, vajra, mirror, etc... And the devs comment about those thing not having Evocation worry me for a bit since I'm not really a "mundane" weapon kind of guy, seriously, when I see a character holding another freaking giant-ass sword, it like I have to listen to another Let It Go cover song for a hour.

So I kinda wonder if the whole "Only real-life weapon like sword and hammer can have Evocation" thingy will be enforced with an iron fist or can I have a sidebar saying "Hey, wacking people with a Stop sign is cool in our book, you can give it as much Evocation as you want", if it's the former then Noooooo, if it's the latter then Yay !

[Gayo]

It seems weird to me that you would want to hit people with a rice paddle, but also to have the rice paddle be an artifact with legendary superpowers. It seems like a lot of the intrinsic appeal of hitting people with a goofy improvised weapon drains away if it's actually a +2 Orichalcum Vorpal Stop Sign of Wounding. By the time you attach the aesthetics of Stormbringer to these things, they no longer feel like what they ostensibly are.

You're obviously not going to need Evocations to be a high-level Melee combatant, so why not just go full-on Melee or Brawl charms and maybe gin up a custom native charm or two that reflects your skill with improvised weapons generally?

[Ejtaka]

Well, to have a weapon based evocation, it has to have been made to be a weapon. It can be innocuous, or a concealed weapon, and still be a weapon. If you just pick up a random stop sign, it probably won't have any evocations. If you, on the other hand, carefully forge a heavy metal bar weighted on one end give it good grips, lace it with adamant to give it unbelieveable stopping power and starmetal so that it commands your enemies to stop moving as you roundly bash their heads in, that deserves evocations. It is still a weapon, but it is designed to look like something else.

Or, design a weapon, and as part of its moonsilver evocations, have it look like something else. It is still a weapon, but it is in the shape of mundane object #17. The devs likely won't write up something like this in the core book, but it doesn't take much to make one with the promised evocation ruleset. And if someone doesn't like you doing it, just tell them "Whateveh. I do what I want.'

[Crumplepunch]

I think the problem is that evocations are functions of magical weapons, not skills restricted for use with magical weapons only.

What you want sounds like a Charm to enhance improvised weapons (or a martial arts style that emphasizes use of improvised weapons), which I'm sure would be permissible.

[Gaius]

It seems weird to me that you would want to hit people with a rice paddle, but also to have the rice paddle be an artifact with legendary superpowers. It seems like a lot of the intrinsic appeal of hitting people with a goofy improvised weapon drains away if it's actually a +2 Orichalcum Vorpal Stop Sign of Wounding. By the time you attach the aesthetics of Stormbringer to these things, they no longer feel like what they ostensibly are.

You're obviously not going to need Evocations to be a high-level Melee combatant, so why not just go full-on Melee or Brawl charms and maybe gin up a custom native charm or two that reflects your skill with improvised weapons generally?

Yeah, I think there may have been a misunderstanding. I don't think the devs are saying, "If you have an unorthodox artifact weapon, no Evocations for you." Especially given how much they apparently allow for a lot of weapon customization, letting people make all sorts of crazy weapons. If you make some kind of mirror artifact, it may or may not have Evocations. If you make some kind of strange mirror artifact that's designed for use as a weapon, though, Evocations seem like they could definitely be in the cards. Remember also that it's about forming a relationship between the object and its user. You can't draw Evocations from any random object you picked up, just as you can't draw Evocations from any random sword, either.

[thedonnie]

Evocations are meant for magical items and weapons that have been enchanted for their powers. But, I am with the OP on improvising weapons. My ST and I came up with a style to do just that after watching one too many Jackie Chan movies in a row. For those keeping score, that number is five. We pushed it to six.

[Eric Minton]

Evocations are born out of the shared legend of the Exalt and her weapon, who grow together out of time and long use. You do not draw Evocations out of a random rice paddle you just picked up, but you do not draw Evocations out of a random sword or spear you just picked up, either. Wielding a mundane weapon -- whether or not it's improvised -- with supernatural skill is the domain of Charms, not Evocations.

If you forge a rice paddle out of orichalcum and wrap its handle in dragon's scales, creating an artifact rice paddle, I guess you could beat people up with it and eventually develop martial Evocations? I could see such a rice paddle primarily used in cookery and developing cookery Evocations, and if you happen to have it to hand and beat people up with it when needed, it might also develop a few martial Evocations that somehow tie in thematically with its household uses -- presumably non-lethally. But constructing a non-weapon artifact tool solely to use it as a weapon seems silly, and only appropriate to comedy-oriented games.

(Holden says, "I'd be more inclined to think that your spoon of asswhooping might eventually begin to develop something of a martial spirit about it that made it amenable to being re-forged as a component for an actual weapon, myself. But again, this seems like a comedy game thing.")

[Jen]

It seems weird to me that you would want to hit people with a rice paddle, but also to have the rice paddle be an artifact with legendary superpowers. It seems like a lot of the intrinsic appeal of hitting people with a goofy improvised weapon drains away if it's actually a +2 Orichalcum Vorpal Stop Sign of Wounding. By the time you attach the aesthetics of Stormbringer to these things, they no longer feel like what they ostensibly are.

You're obviously not going to need Evocations to be a high-level Melee combatant, so why not just go full-on Melee or Brawl charms and maybe gin up a custom native charm or two that reflects your skill with improvised weapons generally?

Most of the weird weapon user that I want to create are Sid, and unless Ex3 give them at least 8 charms in the Melee tree I'm gonna have a bunch of characters who fight vaguely like each other. And I'll rage if anyone suggest "Just be a Martial Artist lol" ....

[ThatSmellyGoblin]

Well i have slightly different opinion depending on the "weird weapon" example. Here, i'm taking in consideration that all of these are indeed artifacts of power and not mundane items.

The rice paddle: An adorable design and i see a function as a blunt weapon here, I could see it statted as a Goremaul. I sort of enjoy the thought of a weapon having a unconventional shape would shape it's evocations to be quite unique as well. Cookery-inspired fighting charms.

The butterfly cage and the mirror: Illusory evocations that create distractions and fools the eye. I have a hard time seeing them as damage dealing items but something that can incapacitate an opponent is considered a weapon in my eyes. Also a fighter that predominantly uses indirect fighting methods like that would rule the stunting scene and be very memorable. The thought of it inspires me quite a bit.

The fish: Whaaaat...

It's generally pretty neat if you ask me.

Also, looking at the size of the Solar splat. If Sids are gonna have anything that resembles the size of that, I wouldn't worry too much about there only being 8 melee charms.

[Tiresias]

Now I want to make a black jade/moonsilver daiklave that can turn into a shark.

[semicasual]

Well, I don't see why you couldn't have an umbrella, guitar, or anchor with Evocation powers... Off-the-wall signature weapons are more or less in-theme for the Exalted, although I think I would be upset if too many characters used them.

[The MG]

I'm pretty sure that butterfly cage is just a starmetal goremaul. Not even a weird one, either; starmetal is scarce, so trapping a wicked butterfly-spirit for extra power seems like a reasonable thing to do.

Anyway, I'm with Gayo. If you want to play Joachim Valentine, play Joachim Valentine.

[danelsan]

Of course a fish won't have evocations. Enhancement by Familiar-empowering Charms on the other hand...

[Jen]

The butterfly cage and the mirror: Illusory evocations that create distractions and fools the eye. I have a hard time seeing them as damage dealing items but something that can incapacitate an opponent is considered a weapon in my eyes. Also a fighter that predominantly uses indirect fighting methods like that would rule the stunting scene and be very memorable. The thought of it inspires me quite a bit.

Kaguya-hime from Orochi Warrior fights by firing laser from her mirror so offensive Evocation is not too out of the question. Not to mention you can throw in curse, poison, parallel dimensions if the mirror is made from obsidian, mining ideas from the Smoking Mirrors of Aztec myth.

The fish: Whaaaat...

It actually her Godly Familiar, I'm basing this on a homebrew charm that turn your divine pet into an Artifact for One Scene, but this Sidereal like her pet as it is so here we have a fish that hit like a Grand Goremaul....

[Arrghus]

Most of the weird weapon user that I want to create are Sid, and unless Ex3 give them at least 8 charms in the Melee tree I'm gonna have a bunch of characters who fight vaguely like each other. And I'll rage if anyone suggest "Just be a Martial Artist lol" ....

Wasn't there like 500 Solar Charms, with extra focus on combat abilities? I think, when the time comes, Sids will get their 8 Melee Charms.

Also, why do you beat people with your stop sign? Sharpen the edges and wield it like a glaive. In fact, it's not just a stop sign, but the stop sign, forged by Shogunate lawkeepers to aid in the capture of Exalted criminals and Anathema. The runes on it read "Halt in the name of the Shogun" and when it is planted in the ground and the proper words are spoken by one who knows its power, it shines with a white light and breaks the path of those who would pass by you with stone barriers and the majesty of law.

The cage on a stick was made on the orders of Alkana, god of earthquakes and obsessive rodent collector. In its natural state it aids the user in seeking out and capturing squirrels and mole rats and the like, but when the great beastmaster Descending Talon stole it, they taught it to crave worthier prey, and coaxed into it an appetite for battle rivaling that of the great snakes and flightless birds its master sought to capture and tame.

...Actually, playing a born-and-raised violent person who takes luxury Artifacts and teaches them the art of war could be pretty cool.