I'm just going to leave these vandalized chapter comics here.

[The MG]

Good manners in the West would default to the male pronoun, but I'm not sure which Righteous Tsunami was written with.

Tya writeups have been very consistent in using feminine pronouns. Given this, I'd be inclined to call the Tya a third gender rather than straight trans thing.

EX3 might change this, of course.

[Amakawa Yuuto]

One thing I think is important about Panther is that every single element of his story varies between "par for the course" and "awesome" - there isn't really something you can point at and say "that's bad", while there are several nice parts about it.

A black Exalt as a sig? Good!
An outright horrible person who saw the emptiness in his life and swore to not only turn his own life around, but to also serve as an example for others? Great!
Son of a prostitute who never knew his father? Well, 'kay.
Took his signature weapons as trophy from a battle with a Lunar? Nothing special, no problem.
Former pit fighter who learned "performance" by playing the audience for more fame and thus money? Nice idea!

It's only when you combine all these single things that are individually good ideas into one character that you end up with the stereotypes of not only the angry black man, but also the magical black man and the black priest with a criminal past, all in one character. And then they named him Panther to drive the point home.

/Edit: There's also the part where his portrayal in chapter comics only had the variations of "Angry black man shouting" and "Angry black man punching", but since those aren't part of his backstory, I stick to the above. Besides, an always-angry Zenith isn't that bad on its own, either, nor is it a problem that a Zenith punches people to solve problems - it's just that again, they gave that role to the big black guy.

[Mizu]

The problem with Panther isn't that he's an angry black man. It's that he's a black dude who lived a life of empty fame based in violence, drugs and prostitutes, until he did the setting-equivalent of finding Jesus and became a preacher. Throughout all this he remains an Angry Black Man.

I mean.

For reals.

(he's still a really cool character but that shouldn't prevent us from looking at his story critically)

In fairness, there is a lot of shit to be angry about in Creation.

[Lula]

One can summarize Panther into the Angry Black Man stereotype but wouldn't a similar summary of his other deeds (walking away from a wasted life, inspiring others with righteousness, being a poor traveler setting wrongs to right then refusing payment and walking on, slaying magical werewolf people, saying Christ all the time) pin him in the Magical N- stereotype? Which is like the polar opposite of the Angry Black Man? Sounds like our allegorical stereotyping logic might be at fault, not the character as written.

I don't think racial stereotypes add to or subtract from one another that way. If I say five nice things about someone, one racist thing, and then five more nice things, the nice things don't make the racist thing I said any less pernicious. Likewise, if someone stereotypes me as a weak and unassertive Asian, but later stereotypes me as a badass Asian martial artist, that second stereotype doesn't exactly make me feel better.

Final note, I cracked up at the Hope blue/red spoof. It was really great.

Aw, thanks ^_^;;

[Omicron]

I thought House of the Bull God did a great job of giving a great many and varied black characters, but that was quite some time ago.

One can summarize Panther into the Angry Black Man stereotype but wouldn't a similar summary of his other deeds (walking away from a wasted life, inspiring others with righteousness, being a poor traveler setting wrongs to right then refusing payment and walking on, slaying magical werewolf people, saying Christ all the time) pin him in the Magical N- stereotype? Which is like the polar opposite of the Angry Black Man? Sounds like our allegorical stereotyping logic might be at fault, not the character as written.

In my viewpoint, the vast majority of characters of note are Dragon-Blooded, most of which are from the Realm, where most of their ancestry is Asian (but considerably mixed due to Lost Eggs). Everyone else is marginalized, because they live on the margins of the world.

Final note, I cracked up at the Hope blue/red spoof. It was really great.

The problem with Panther isn't that he's an angry black man. It's that he's a black dude who lived a life of empty fame based in violence, drugs and prostitutes, until he did the setting-equivalent of finding Jesus and became a preacher. Throughout all this he remains an Angry Black Man.

I mean.

For reals.

(he's still a really cool character but that shouldn't prevent us from looking at his story critically)

[Tikor]

I thought House of the Bull God did a great job of giving a great many and varied black characters, but that was quite some time ago.

One can summarize Panther into the Angry Black Man stereotype but wouldn't a similar summary of his other deeds (walking away from a wasted life, inspiring others with righteousness, being a poor traveler setting wrongs to right then refusing payment and walking on, slaying magical werewolf people, saying Christ all the time) pin him in the Magical N- stereotype? Which is like the polar opposite of the Angry Black Man? Sounds like our allegorical stereotyping logic might be at fault, not the character as written.

In my viewpoint, the vast majority of characters of note are Dragon-Blooded, most of which are from the Realm, where most of their ancestry is Asian (but considerably mixed due to Lost Eggs). Everyone else is marginalized, because they live on the margins of the world.

Final note, I cracked up at the Hope blue/red spoof. It was really great.

[Mizu]

Probably just a fanatical and incompetent priest who found out she was a solar and instantly went to 'MURDER THE YOZI-IMPRISING MONSTER' mode, without communicating with any higher power for orders to corrupt or bargain with her.

They probably didn't get a very good performance review next time Sondak called them in for one. And not just because I'm pretty sure they were dead.

[Robert Vance]

I haven't read it, but Autochthonia may have introduced more—I recall Vance talking about an older man who fought with whips at one point.

Didn't get an illo, so probably doesn't count much for representation.

[Major]

The fact that both you and I can only kinda hazily recall that guy is probably a good indicator that's he not a prominent character.

Or that he really is Sidereal. Dun dun dun!

[Lula]

The setting had other Black men, but none were prominently displayed. The two Black male Sidereals were Nazri (not prominent—it was essentially his job not to be prominent) and Crimson Banner Executioner (completely concealed and also only probably Black). The stereotypical incompetent African warlord from the back of the South book was a mortal and you don't remember him. Ahlat I don't count for various reasons, such as that, even though he's an archery god, he has a Thrown specialty in javelins and ANOTHER Thrown specialty in spears, apparently solely to make sure we know we can accurately apply the s-word to him. I haven't read it, but Autochthonia may have introduced more—I recall Vance talking about an older man who fought with whips at one point.

[Mr.Jaxus]

*I do have to laugh though at the Salmalin for kicking her out. A woman they raised from birth told them she had magical Exalted powers and asked how the demons wanted her to use them, and they somehow decided they didn't want a completely loyal Solar akuma in their cult. *shakes head*

Probably just a fanatical and incompetent priest who found out she was a solar and instantly went to 'MURDER THE YOZI-IMPRISING MONSTER' mode, without communicating with any higher power for orders to corrupt or bargain with her.

[Chejop Kejak]

I recall Tya being written consistently with female pronouns. That makes a kind of sense, since the books only focused on Tya-ing as a way for women to be sailors in the West... but, obviously, that's overlooking a pretty massive aspect of ritually giving up one's womanhood, which should be a big damn deal.

Nazri had a pretty sweet picture in the 2E Sidereals book which did, indeed, look like someone from north-central Africa. I liked, and I liked him... and, no, he is not a prominent character. But the stranger thing I just realized: Sad Ivory is from Halta. Why the christ is she so pale?

In fact, why are there no other black Sidereals? Or, indeed, black members of any of the non-Solar sig circles? It's really pathetic how I never noticed that until now...

[Jen]

Jen... If you read this message... this thread calls out for you like nothing else.

Eh, I'm not sure what am I suppose to do here :'O

[Khantalas]

(My understanding was that since the Tya consider themselves male, referring to one as "she" would be pretty rude.)

Tya don't consider themselves male so much as everyone else considers them to be male. Which is unlike Dereth, who explicitly consider themselves as a specific gender.

[Robert Vance]

((I keep calling Tya "he" despite that all the game text so far has called them "she". Is that right? Is there a Tya-specific pronoun we should use while speaking English, or is "she" actually correct? Tya confuse me immensely, linguistically speaking.))

It's going to vary from person to person. For some Tya, their status might have nothing to do with their gender or sexual identity, relating only to the gendered roles they want to perform. For others, it is a matter of how they identify themselves. Good manners in the West would default to the male pronoun, but I'm not sure which Righteous Tsunami was written with.