The Castes, their abilities, and Supernals

[Isator Levi]

Lore still has benefits to combat, doesn't it?

[Khantalas]

Some. You really benefit more from Occult, though, and not just for Sorcery.

[Zelbinnean]

If you want to make a character where, you know, his strength is surpassed only by the power of his heart, then you faced with the choice that his Integrity or Presence is probably going to be supernal compared to his Brawl and Athletics, and that really means he is going to be a Zenith (or perhaps a Twilight or Eclipse but they're not so about physical strength).

(or perhaps a Twilight or Eclipse but they're not so about physical strength)

Generalized statements like this reallllllly grind my gears.

and Twilight is firmly stuck in the egghead category.

Are you speaking solely because of Supernal (which IMO is kind of a terrible basis for the conclusion that "X Caste is ONLY good at Y"), or because of their range of Caste Ability choices?

[The Wizard of Oz]

For a stereotypical Blacksmith Solar, I'd expect them to be a Strength 5 Twilight.

[Bulshock]

Strength 3, at least, for a smith type. Which is defined as 'Strong'.

[Childofthesun1]

We got tables.

Skillz				Caste
Archery	Brawl	Melee	Throw	Dawn
Sail					Eclipse
Stealth						Night
Craft	Medicine						Twilight
Performance	Survival							Zenith
Awareness	Dodge			Dawn		Night
War	Resistance			Dawn				Zenith
Larceny	Ride	Socialize			Eclipse	Night
Bureaucracy	Linguistics	Occult			Eclipse		Twilight
Presence					Eclipse			Zenith
Investigation						Night	Twilight
Athletics						Night		Zenith
Integrity	Lore						Twilight	Zenith

Maybe it's just because I'm on my phone and it rolls right off the edge of the page, but I actually find the table more difficult to read. Thanks regardless!

Love the skillz, btw.

I did an analysis like the OPs as well. What was most striking to me was was that both Twilight and Eclipse are basically screwed in the combat department. It seems like picking up at least one offensive combat Ability, and one defensive combat Ability is a good idea, and Twilights/Eclipses are SoL on that. Zeniths are easier to build as warrior-scholars or warrior-diplomats.

I also noted that a Dawn has essentially one build for a weapon master (meaning they only want one weapon category favored), and that includes War. Then they will need to pick up Athletics as favored, but beyond that, they are golden. On the flip side, of course, Dawns can't not be warriors. But really, they are the most popular Caste because they kick ass.

Overall, I think the Zenith and the Night are the most flexible in terms of doing the various activities that tend to occupy most Exalted games. Dawn is next from there, and Twilight is firmly stuck in the egghead category.

Dawns can't not be warriors. That's pretty neat. Pretty solid analysis on ability distribution and good point about the noncombat castes.

Yep, Zenith is still my favorite. Best ability set since I first saw them in early 2e. Resistance Presence Athletics War Integrity Performance are all such cool abilities.

[Totentanz]

Are you speaking solely because of Supernal (which IMO is kind of a terrible basis for the conclusion that "X Caste is ONLY good at Y"), or because of their range of Caste Ability choices?

I'm not basing it on Supernal. I actually agree with you that Supernal somewhat pushes the Castes more into straight jackets, which I don't care for. I like Caste as a broad concept.

I am speaking of the overall Caste Ability spread. Twilights don't get any social/combat skills. Lore and Occult have a few combat tricks, but neither will make a Twilight combat-ready. Same goes for social influence. Integrity, of, course is the defensive skill for social influence, but a shield with no spear is kinda eh.

To compare, the Zenith has offensive and defensive combat Abilities, and social influence. The Night has supplemental offense/defense (Athletics), defense (Dodge), and social influence.

Since I love the Twilights, I was somewhat disappointed with how they turned out. 2E was explicit on the point that Twilights were not simple weak scholars. They had the hardiness and skills to survive unearthing old secrets and braving a dangerous world for knowledge. Ex3 has essentially wiped that away from a fluff and crunch standpoint. If they had gotten Resistance or Survival instead of, say, Bureaucracy, that would have been preserved.

Though i can understand why it might have been dangerous to combine Survival Supernal with the Twilight Anima powers...

[The Wizard of Oz]

Maybe they should have different anima powers then.
But hey, you can take favoured abilities too, I don't see this as a big problem.

Dawns can't not be warriors. That's pretty neat.

Well, you could have Awareness, Resistance, Dodge, War and then one combat skill that you just don't have any points in. A tough master strategist who sees any attack coming. It's not very viable though.

[Zelbinnean]

Well, all of that discounts Favored Abilities (which was perhaps the point since they're completely open). A Twilight can certainly be a survivalist and take a punch and be Indiana Jones or Samantha Carter. It's just not "built in," but it never really was (and they still have one of the best anima powers).

And the closest thing Zeniths really get to fighting is Athletics, which helps make you fight nastier but doesn't actually let you attack, and War, which is for a very specific kind of fighting.

Zeniths can be inherently good at making the most of a human body's potential, whether that's strength, speed, mental or physical fortitude, or ability to influence or lead others, but there's nothing inhererently good at skirmish level fighting about them.

Yep, Zenith is still my favorite. Best ability set since I first saw them in early 2e. Resistance Presence Athletics War Integrity Performance are all such cool abilities.

This is interesting to me since I have a lot of trouble being interested in Zeniths. Great Abilities to Favor but I find the spread kind of meh and all over the place on its own. And the anima (in this ed and past eds) seems flavorful but exceptionally niche. Does nothing for me.

[Isator Levi]

First and Second Edition Zenith Abilities make up Jesus.

[The Wizard of Oz]

I felt they were more OT-Prophets (which I guess is why 3rd ed ones get Lore) - If it were Jesus, I think it'd include Medicine.

[Isator Levi]

Not enough room.

[The Wizard of Oz]

Medicine is more appropriate than Resistance or Survival. I mean, yes, he did survive 40 days in the wilderness, but it pales in comparison to all the healing he did.

[Zelbinnean]

Well, you could have Awareness, Resistance, Dodge, War and then one combat skill that you just don't have any points in. A tough master strategist who sees any attack coming. It's not very viable though.

Taking Thrown solely for debuffs and crashing people with Dodge is supremely viable, though it probably would become rather one note in play.

[TheCountAlucard]

Medicine is more appropriate than Resistance or Survival. I mean, yes, he did survive 40 days in the wilderness, but it pales in comparison to all the healing he did.

How long was he on that cross before the soldiers said, "Fuck it, just stab him?" Wasn't it nine hours? Oh, right, they beat him and scourged him before putting him up there, can't forget that. You're right, no one thinks of Resistance when they discuss Jesus.