craft engineering?

[norraba]

so i want to start doing things in setting like making vehicles and mechanically powered elevators and i really wanted to know if craft engineering would be worthwhile? Like when i presented the idea to my st he said that any role i do to make something the first time would be at higher difficulty because "no ones even tried to do this in setting before" and i just wanted to hear some of your guy's thoughts

[BrilliantRain]

Ok, so, in actual history, ancient peoples built a bunch of things using gears and levers and complex engineering concepts. The main reasons they didn't develop a lot of things further is that they didn't have a lot of the underlying science and math worked out to make it all efficent, nor did they have the advanced metallurgy to make steam engines that don't explode, and a host of other issues that prevented them from progressing further in this area until the rest of their society caught up.

Exalted is more problematic for two reasons:

1) The setting is supposed to be this "Conan meets Kung-Fu in Ancient Rome" pulpy action sort of thing and starting the Industrial Revolution runs counter to this theme in a lot of ways. This is best solved by talking to your group and letting them know this is a thing you want to do and seeing how they feel about allowing the setting to drift that way.

2) If they are ok with it, well, Exalted is a post apocalyptic setting that still retains a bunch of ancient lore, combined with strange materials that can do unearthly things. So, most of the stuff that prevented the ancients from jumping right to the Industrial Revolution aren't necessarily big problems in Exalted, provided you can get the right resources. Go find ancient Libraries, hunt down sources of feathersteel, and so on.

(If they don't go for it, see if they'd be ok with you trying to bring back the First Age and stuff, then use Workings and Artifacts to perform the sort of things you would otherwise do with Engineering. If you keep it in theme, they might not notice.)

Also poke around the net for information on ancient engineering, just to see the sorts of things people actually built back then. That will give you something to show your ST that you can use as a guideline for the sorts of things you can legitimately do with basic engineering (if they don't go for the whole Industrial Revolution thing).

Good luck!

[Bulshock]

Basic engineering is actually pretty complex and was done quite a bit, in fact some of the areas that Exalted draws inspiration from did it extensively to one degree or another. Hydraulics and clockwork go back thousands of years in their most basic forms, from my understanding. Here is an article on the history of civil and mechanical engineering. Granted, it doesn't go into lots of detail on it. http://www.usc.edu/dept/engineering/...l-engineering/

We actually had a thread on here about the level of technology in Exalted and where various places were with regards to it, should be a few pages back from the front page, I'll link it if I find it, as some of the discussion might help. I don't think there was much on actual engineering in it, but still.

Edit: Forgot I was subscribed to it, here you go. http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/m...ogy-in-exalted

[Ncolic]

Basic engineering is quite complex and can be done in Exalted. But the more complex and centerpieces of our technology, motors should be out of reach. For example, an electrical motor is fairly simple to build, but inventing one from starts involves finding out so many theories, its pretty much impossible to do in one lifetime.

It might seem like easy to us right now, because inventions usually are, but when you don't know anything about it they are pretty damn hard to imagine, let alone built. Think for example of Bicycle, its so simple, but it took lots of centuries until someone figured out how one can build one. He had the tech for it since B.C. 3500.

[FallenEco]

Windmills and water wheels are fine, engines not so much...

[norraba]

Go find ancient Libraries, hunt down sources of feathersteel, and so on.

i love you're whole example but i loved this the most because my characters mom was literally a library.

[norraba]

Edit: Forgot I was subscribed to it, here you go. http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/m...ogy-in-exalted

this is so helpful thank you

[Isator Levi]

What do you mean specifically by vehicles and mechanically powered libraries?

my characters mom was literally a library

I think you're going off the reservation enough that applying the Craft system to an idiosyncratic story of rapid technical innovation in the setting isn't especially out of place.

[Isator Levi]

Forgot I was subscribed to it, here you go. http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/m...ogy-in-exalted

Incidentally, after having recently seen Kiki's Delivery Service and recalling several other Studio Ghibli films, I gained a new perspective on that whole discussion; namely that I'm going to opt to view Creation's idiosyncratic and slightly mixed together sense of technologies (that still generally maintain a coherent social image) as creating a form of timelessness rather than being an indication of incompetence. Certainly I prefer Creation as it is rather than making it thoroughly resemble some specific ancient period (which would probably not be very difficult) with the addition of demigods and such.

[norraba]

What do you mean specifically by vehicles and mechanically powered libraries?

I was thinking possibly an advancement of technology similar to the earlier episodes of the lok series how it jumped from industrial (they had ships that ran on fuel) to roaring twenties, even if it was only in republic city for the most part. so like basic cars to start but after a few years it would advance of course. and for the library i don't want it to be any more mechanical than indoor plumbing and elevators. its going to do magical stuff but thats cause its going to be an artifact library.

I think you're going off the reservation enough that applying the Craft system to an idiosyncratic story of rapid technical innovation in the setting isn't especially out of place.

and yea lol, for my characters backstory his mom was the god of the library of kanda, his other mom was the librarian.

[norraba]

Incidentally, after having recently seen Kiki's Delivery Service and recalling several other Studio Ghibli films, I gained a new perspective on that whole discussion; namely that I'm going to opt to view Creation's idiosyncratic and slightly mixed together sense of technologies (that still generally maintain a coherent social image) as creating a form of timelessness rather than being an indication of incompetence. Certainly I prefer Creation as it is rather than making it thoroughly resemble some specific ancient period (which would probably not be very difficult) with the addition of demigods and such.

i like this a lot actually because my characters defining intimacy is making life easier for mortals, specifically for the poor amongst mortals who are taken advantage of by the wealthy, so striving to create mundane creations that can supplement magical ones would definitely be justification for inventing what could other wise be done through more mystical means.

[Bulshock]

this is so helpful thank you

Quite welcome!

Isator Levi Sounds good! The reason I wanted to start that thread was to get a good grasp of what was reasonable in setting overall for non-essence manipulators to do. Even if it was the upper end. The tinkerer genius who makes weird contraptions that work and so on without essence could be an interesting character to play after they Exalt, after all. But to know what they could of even been doing you need to have a solid grasp of what was possible.

[Isator Levi]

I was thinking possibly an advancement of technology similar to the earlier episodes of the lok series how it jumped from industrial (they had ships that ran on fuel) to roaring twenties, even if it was only in republic city for the most part. so like basic cars to start but after a few years it would advance of course. and for the library i don't want it to be any more mechanical than indoor plumbing and elevators. its going to do magical stuff but thats cause its going to be an artifact library.

Yeah, I wouldn't sweat the details of that advancement regardless of the setting. Just use the Craft system where it's necessary and otherwise play out the story of it; the necessary supporting social systems and resource acquisitions, the implications of the development, and so on. Seems like the initial rolls would naturally fall into difficulty 5.

and yea lol, for my characters backstory his mom was the god of the library of kanda, his other mom was the librarian.

Oh. That is... considerably more mundane.

[ShadowFighter88]

Oh. That is... considerably more mundane.

Only in Exalted would a mortal/deity lesbian romance resulting in a child seem mundane.

[Isator Levi]

Only in Exalted would a mortal/deity lesbian romance resulting in a child seem mundane.

Well, no, it would be weird in any setting, just... less weird than a parent being an actual building filled with books.

I've read a story in which a character is convinced that his father is an actual library, and the story never outright discounts the possibility. Also he's a wyvern (or as he calls himself, a wyverary). Perhaps that changes my read on the line.