Thought: Anima as the source of Essence recovery

[BlueWinds]

This is going to break all kinds of things. Combat is balanced around that 5m drip.

Is combat balanced? In my play so far I haven't actually seen evidence of that. And looking at other threads on the forum, those posting actual play experience report wildly different exeriences of what combat is like. See the threads on "Single point is overpowered, my combats never last more than a round" vs. the threads "how long do your combats usually take," where the answers range between 2-3 rounds vs. the threads "how can I make combat not take forever, no one can damage each other."

So... I think combat is designed to be fun, but I don't see that there's some well-honed balance that needs to be worked around. There was even a developer quote to that effect at some point, that the different combat abilities are designed to feel unique and play differently and be entertaining, but that comparative-balance wasn't a goal. (I wish I had that reference handy, but it's late at night - I can search in the morning if people are interested).

[Beaumis]

So... I think combat is designed to be fun, but I don't see that there's some well-honed balance that needs to be worked around. There was even a developer quote to that effect at some point, that the different combat abilities are designed to feel unique and play differently and be entertaining, but that comparative-balance wasn't a goal. (I wish I had that reference handy, but it's late at night - I can search in the morning if people are interested).

That would explain a lot in my opinion and I wish it were actually spelled out in the book. Game balance is something that is expected these days. I'm not sure how combat can be fun without balance but that is a subjective thing and another discussion. Your point about unique and different makes perfect sense.

Regarding Hearthstones, unless I miss something they wouldn't be affected at all because the concept presented by the OP talks about combat regen while hearthstones only affect out of combat regen. If anything, it would make them stronger because they make it easier to enter combat at full resources.

As for the original concept, it feels like something very natural that would describe the way the world works very well in a "the larger the breach, the more comes through" kind of way. But from a player's perspective, it also feels like it incentivizes going all out over pacing yourself. Pretty much every ability has some sort of nova combo that allows you to brute force almost anything at the cost of being a one-trick pony (for that encounter) because you use a significant portion of your power. If you fail, you are in trouble but with this rule, you'd be better off than going slow because now you regenerate more motes to build back up.

And frankly, pacing yourself is really where combat seems to work best in this game, so I wonder what exactly the design intend behind this proposed change is? It seems to be a lot of people here prefer combat to have a ramp up time where you don't go all out in the first round but instead escalate over time. If that is the intent, I would think that mote expenditure, rather than regeneration, is the dial to play with. Simply cap the amounts of (peripheral) motes that can be spend within an anima status and alter the growth accordingly. That keeps the numbers easy to track, makes nova actions more expensive but not impossible and actually gives an incentive to let your anima flare because it allows you to spend peripheral motes on the more powerful charms.

[RCa]

It can nerf hearthstones, if it allows you to get combat-time regeneration out of combat by flaring your anima. More specifically, in 3E, it would nerf the Manse Background, because demesne-formed hearthstones don't provide the regeneration. You'd still need half an hour of privacy to let your caste mark vanish though.

[Beaumis]

It can nerf hearthstones, if it allows you to get combat-time regeneration out of combat by flaring your anima. More specifically, in 3E, it would nerf the Manse Background, because demesne-formed hearthstones don't provide the regeneration. You'd still need half an hour of privacy to let your caste mark vanish though.

If you flare your anima out of combat you are still out of combat. Whether you regenerate motes according to the out of combat rules or based on your anima, you are not in combat. It should stack with hearthstones, shouldn't it?

[Lioness]

This is tangential to the main point of the thread, but my understanding of anima-shedding Charms frames them as the exact opposite - not a risk mitigator, but rather something you only use when you have no choice but to throw caution to the wind. After all, you have to build up your anima before shedding it, and by the time you've dispersed it, enough people could have seen it to draw attention. Sure, they won't be able to pinpoint your location afterwards, but the anima banner fades from iconic to nothing within an hour anyway - not that much time for tracking. Unless someone looking for you is literally within an hour's distance, of course, but if that's the case, you've got more serious problems than anima shenanigans.

Personally I'm glad for the risk mitigation.
The simple fact is that if a PC goes totemic in the belly of the beast like the Imperial City or the middle of Deathlord occupied territory most Storytellers are going to be bending over backwards to not make this excursion a total party kill while still preserving the sense that the antagonists are a threat. That works so much easier if the PC in question stifles their anima gets as far away from their last known position as possible and hides rather than taking on the death squads head on.

In short, anything that gives the PCs more options in a tight situation without falling back on plot armour is good to me.

[Daerian]

This would also require big work on Occult Charms, especially as one of the most powerful of them (Spirit-Drawing Oculus) is made to shed anima for instant mote regen, which is counter-productive in this paradigm.

[Kyeudo]

And frankly, pacing yourself is really where combat seems to work best in this game, so I wonder what exactly the design intend behind this proposed change is?

Just a collection of thoughts that converged in my head rather than a dedicated design intent. You've got the anima banner that is genre appropriate and really cool, but as implemented is actually a sign of weakness. If you are glowing a lot, it means that you've been pushed to expend five or more motes multiple times and you are out of personal motes. You've got the passive mote drip, which is a nice mechanical feature but comes from nowhere. The two are things that are thematically connected through the idea of Essence expenditure, so it suddenly seemed like a good fit and I wanted to get people's opinions on the basic idea before developing it further.

It seems to be a lot of people here prefer combat to have a ramp up time where you don't go all out in the first round but instead escalate over time. If that is the intent, I would think that mote expenditure, rather than regeneration, is the dial to play with. Simply cap the amounts of (peripheral) motes that can be spend within an anima status and alter the growth accordingly. That keeps the numbers easy to track, makes nova actions more expensive but not impossible and actually gives an incentive to let your anima flare because it allows you to spend peripheral motes on the more powerful charms.

If I went this route, I'd make anima flare a voluntary action, with you choosing how far up the scale you want to flare. Of course, doing that makes anima level costs useless, since you can generate them at will.

[Beaumis]

I see, thanks for clarifying that. You're right, the anima is a weakness and while I am decidedly not an authority on the setting, I understood that to be intended. In terms of the setting, magic is relatively rare and people generally fear and/or dislike being subjected to it. The anima is a dead giveaway that you are using magic in whatever it is you're doing at the time. This may be something innocent like forging a sword, but when you're trying to influence someone, starting to glow is a problem. Given the fact that Solars are seen as Anathema by the vast majority of the population, I understood that to be a pacing mechanism to keep players in check. Solars are unbelievably powerful, but to show their power is to invite it's challenge.

While anima and motes are thematically linked, as the rules are written, the motes are cause and anima the effect. Your proposal creates a cyclic relationship where high expenditure is objectively better than low one because overall, you have "more" power to work with. It's an interesting concept because it incorporates a risk vs. reward structure into motes, but it also gives player's an incentive to use brute force over subtlety. At least to my mind, that runs counter to the setting's underlying concepts.

Personally, I never got the coolness attributed to glowing really bright. It always seemed like a nuisance to me. I prefer displays of power to be the thing you actually do and not how bright you glow. That's a matter of personal taste though.

[Kyeudo]

Personally, I never got the coolness attributed to glowing really bright. It always seemed like a nuisance to me. I prefer displays of power to be the thing you actually do and not how bright you glow. That's a matter of personal taste though.

It's part of the genre from which the anima banner was drawn. DBZ, Bleach, and other shonen anime often express a character's power by having them glow. However, in shonen anime, the brighter the glow the more dangerous the entity has become, which is directly counter to how the anima banner functions mechanically.

[Elfive]

in shonen anime, the brighter the glow the more dangerous the entity has become, which is directly counter to how the anima banner functions mechanically.

Not if you're activating scene-long buffs.

Essence 2+ dude activates strength increasing exercise using peripheral essence. They start glowing and get stronger. That's a kaio-ken, right there.

[Beaumis]

It's part of the genre from which the anima banner was drawn. DBZ, Bleach, and other shonen anime often express a character's power by having them glow. However, in shonen anime, the brighter the glow the more dangerous the entity has become, which is directly counter to how the anima banner functions mechanically.

I know the origins. I just don't get the appeal.

I would argue the point that anima doesn't reflect danger/power though. Most charms that flare your anima (mote cost >=5) are rather powerful. Glorious Solar Plate/Saber definitely make you more powerful. Fivefold Bulwark Stance turns you into a parry juggernaut. Iron Kettle Body and Admant Skin Technqiue make you incredibly resilient. A full excellency makes your action very dangerous. Revolving Bow Discipline and Arrow Storm Technique are among the most devastating charms in the game.

If you really want to tie power to anima, my suggestion to link mote expenditure to anima level stands. From the top of my head, you could go with something like this:

1. You can advance only one anima level per turn.
2. Anima levels have progressively higher cost, something like 5/10/15 for glowing/burning/iconic.
3. If you do not spend the prerequisite amount of motes per turn, you lose an anima level.
4. You regenerate 0/5/7/9 motes per turn in dim/glowing/burning/iconic. Out of combat, you regenerate 5 motes per hour, 10 at rest. [Optional rule]

In the first round, you can spend up to 9 motes and will start glowing.
In the second round, you can spend up to 14 motes and and you will get to burning.
In the third and following rounds, you can spend as many motes as you want which takes you to iconic. If you spend less than 15, you drop down to burning.

This completely removes the weakness aspect of anima because it dies down really fast. Charms that shed anima limit your mote expenditure for the following turns which makes them significantly more expensive. A few edge case charms would likely need a keyword that allows you to pay the difference from your internal pool. Glorious Solar Plate and medicine charms that cost 10 motes but tend to be used in isolation or at the start of combat come to mind. You anima directly reflects your "dangerlevel" because it dictactes which charms you can use and how much you can pump up your excellencies. Full excellencies are actually not possible until burning level. The system also forces you to think ahead because going all out on offense limits your defense. Furthermore, the system also enforces combat pacing, because you can't simply nova everything.

The optional rule (4) ensures you can run neutral in glowing but you can't run a surplus because if you don't spend the regenerated five motes, you drop to dim and your regeneration stops. The higher regeneration levels have progressively higher cost, forcing you to spend at least a part of your pool to keep the anima going (min. 3 in burning, min. 6 in iconic). These numbers are untested of course, but in theory, they should prevent abuse and the bag of rats problem.

If you want to keep the exalts traceable and visible, add some secondary effect to the world that makes large expenditures of essence obvious. Maybe the place where the essence was spend seems brighter, colors are more vibrant and everything seems more alive. Maybe exalts "sweat magic" for an hour after iconic in an obvious kind of way. Let the player customize the smell.

[Kyeudo]

I think your idea lacks a certain amount of mechanical elegance as well as putting a heavy focus on action. I was conceptualizing this as a case of the anima banner signalling a state of being dangerous rather than a state of doing dangerous things. I also didn't want something that would completely smash the existing combat balance, but instead interact with it.

[Beaumis]

Then by all means, ignore it. Its your game.

I'm not sure how being dangerous can be expressed through mote regeneration. By itself, mote regeneration is sort of just there. What makes exalts dangerous isn't their mote regeneration, its the fact that they have a large mote pool in the first place and can front load their expenditure. Regeneration only ever comes into play once you have done something (dangerous). If you want to express danger in the anima itself, maybe look at some sort of passive effect?

[Limited Reagent]

Then by all means, ignore it. Its your game.

I'm not sure how being dangerous can be expressed through mote regeneration. By itself, mote regeneration is sort of just there. What makes exalts dangerous isn't their mote regeneration, its the fact that they have a large mote pool in the first place and can front load their expenditure. Regeneration only ever comes into play once you have done something (dangerous). If you want to express danger in the anima itself, maybe look at some sort of passive effect?

With that in mind, how about making anima level limit the amount of essence you can spend in one go? It'd be an interesting balance too, since you have to spend essence to increase your cap, encouraging you to play it relatively safe with your expenditures until your anima's hot enough, at which point you bust out the big guns.

It'd obviously tweak the balance, as it'd make ambushes more difficult and alpha-striking harder, and it makes all those "full free excellency" charms more attractive, but hey.

[Ghosthead]

While I quite like Kyuendo's idea, I do think it's a bit extreme to say that the anima banner functions in an opposite way, indicating characters are less dangerous, as like, for example, "At bonfire/iconic anima display, the Dawn adds half her Essence score (round up) to her base Initiative upon resetting to base after a successful decisive attack.". I think the Anima effects are what are intended to handle this stuff by giving specific capabilities rather than general faster Essence regen.