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[2E] New Gods ( like from 'American Gods' of Gaiman )

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  • #16
    So just to make sure, is this Pantheon (or at least some of their number) intended to have negative overtones?

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    • #17
      Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post

      ​Like Guest pointed - even in Gaiman's novel, Loki and Mr. World had been modernized, cause they really wanted. In TV series, Bilquis is using dating app to gather worshipers and sacrifices. Also, Mr. Wood is example of Old God forsaking his posts to join New Gods Pantheon.

      Main idea for Modern Titans Panteon is NOT that Old Gods could not modernized - rather that in Age of Enlightment, humans IMAGINED New Gods as more important to their lives. ( And, connected to it, in last 2-3 thousand years troed to 'reform' Old Gods by worshiping One God - but it's not excplicit.)
      Modernizing in this context though means realigning (such as the way Vulcan did on the tv show) and effectively joining the New God Pantheon. The default state of the Old Gods is to be destitute anachronisms.


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      • #18
        Originally posted by Mockery View Post
        So just to make sure, is this Pantheon (or at least some of their number) intended to have negative overtones?
        Generaly - yes, I think that Panteon made of Titans only ( at core at least) will be more 'negative' than normal Scion Panteon. Maybe not 'negative' - but surely much more amoral in it's members.
        Last edited by wyrdhamster; 04-06-2019, 06:43 PM.


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        • #19
          Regarding Money, O'Mighty Dolla' was the Werewolf totem of money, who at the turn of the millennium had a bitter rivalry with the new totem Easy Credit. (I like to think that Pound Sterling was their Regency and Victorian predecessor.) And because I'm a dork, I keep picturing the god Money as looking like Michael Wincott as Top Dollar in The Crow.

          I'm wondering if Organized Crime, Hollywood, Industry, and Pop Culture would be part of this pantheon.


          What is tolerance? It is the consequence of humanity. We are all formed of frailty and error; let us pardon reciprocally each other's folly. That is the first law of nature.
          Voltaire, "Tolerance" (1764)

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          • #20
            Originally posted by glamourweaver View Post

            Modernizing in this context though means realigning (such as the way Vulcan did on the tv show) and effectively joining the New God Pantheon. The default state of the Old Gods is to be destitute anachronisms.
            With that I agree. Normal state of Old Gods is that they anachronistic. Question is that if can Aphrodite-Venus can be 'split in two'? With one, classical Incarnation of 'Greek Love' being original A-V - and second Incarnation 'selling out' as Queen of Porn to Modern Titans? Two Incarnation of the same goddess, on two sides of conflict. Is this kind of splits between Incarnations is possible in normal Scion?


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            • #21
              Following the idea in American Gods, I would say Venus and Aphrodite are different gods, and even there is more than one of each.

              Shadow, after the end of the adventure with Mr Wednesday, goes to Iceland (or Norway, can’t remamber) and find Odin. Odin says he is not the same as the one Shadow met in US, and they have distinct personalities. Wednesday even says incentivo he is dead another one of him will pop up somewhere in US, as long they believe in his existence.

              It’s possible that each one of them are Avatars of the same deity, having the same basic set of memories and personality, but the events they face turn them on different individuals. In this case, the deity is a distant individual that interact to the World only by avatars, and each avatar, once created, only disapear by dieing.

              There is also the other way, that different mantles of the same god can be different beings, same as it happens in Percy Jackson and the Roman Gods. You all probably read it...


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              • #22
                Just to note, Aphrodite literally had Porne as one of her titles in her role as goddess of lust and prostitution.

                By contrast Venus was a more maternal figure in the Roman religion.


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                • #23
                  Originally posted by glamourweaver View Post
                  Just to note, Aphrodite literally had Porne as one of her titles in her role as goddess of lust and prostitution.

                  By contrast Venus was a more maternal figure in the Roman religion.
                  Those silly Romans, trying to make their gods be all respectable and such.


                  What is tolerance? It is the consequence of humanity. We are all formed of frailty and error; let us pardon reciprocally each other's folly. That is the first law of nature.
                  Voltaire, "Tolerance" (1764)

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post
                    So in 'American Gods' universe there are Old Gods - i.e. Scion classical Pantheons - and New Gods - personifications of modern concepts like Mass Media, Globalization and Technology. Here is list based on characters from Gaiman novel.

                    I'd like to use Pantheon based on those concepts in Scion games, to put more emphasis in setting that belief is making Myths, and those Reality. Goal is simple - to make 2E Scion Pantheon of New Gods. Those listed in novel are only reference points - if you have good concepts for New Gods, we can reflect anything that is 'not canon'. Idea is much more wider than characters from Gaiman books.

                    EDIT: To sum up concept and answers - Yes, I know there is difference in cosmologies between Scion and 'American Gods'. No, I do not want New Gods Pantheon to be related to any previous Pantheon - they should be creation of humanity from times of Age of Enlightment and next rolling on. Yes, maybe making it Pantheons of only wholly new Titans only is a way to go with it in Scion terms.

                    Now in New Gods / Modern Titans Pantheon are those beings:
                    • Conspiracy – Incarnations: Tin Foil Man ( see Alex Jones and put a Tin Foil on him )
                    • Equality
                    • Globalization – Incarnations: Mr. World?
                    • Liberty
                    • Media – Incarnations: Talking Heads ( shows in pair or triple characters in suits at once ), Icons ( Marilyn Monroe, Ziggy Stardust, Lucy Ricardo, etc.), New Media ( kawaii Insta/FB/Google conglomerate )
                    • Money – Incarnations: All Mighty Dolar?
                    • Nationalism
                    • Privilege
                    • Technology – Incarnations: Necessity (‘The Mother of Invention’), Lady Science ( from 18th & 19th century ), Factory Worker, TechnoBoy

                    Loved the American Gods show and I think it's makes a perfect alternate for Scion. The American Gods show could be an easy opening to a new coming out setting for Scion.

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                    • #25
                      Slight off topic - second topic for looking how Monotheism like in 'American Gods' - i.e. dozen of Jesus variants - can work in Scion setting.


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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post
                        Slight off topic - second topic for looking how Monotheism like in 'American Gods' - i.e. dozen of Jesus variants - can work in Scion setting.
                        There is a book I keep meaning to read, Burnt Jesus by Landon Alspiret, in which the protagonist finds himself sucked into a crossdimensional murder mystery involving multiple Jesusi who are all identified by the way they were executed in their dimensions (burnt, mauled, atomic?, etc.). I've no idea if it's any good or if it has any bearing on the above. I just felt like sharing.


                        What is tolerance? It is the consequence of humanity. We are all formed of frailty and error; let us pardon reciprocally each other's folly. That is the first law of nature.
                        Voltaire, "Tolerance" (1764)

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                        • #27
                          Reading now Scion 2E Hero, I can answer this subject of Legend trait working in this setting hacks environment. Mateus Luz, you may want to look on my thoughts here and comment...

                          Originally posted by Mateus Luz View Post
                          The way the Gods shows up in existence in American Gods is quite different from the way Scion set as the true.
                          The gods in American Gods just came to be with memories and all when the people believe in them... the more people believe they are important, more worshipping, more power they have.
                          I'm not sure here. In book - and at least TV series I just rewatched - gods DO things to get more power. Yes, general worship is much easier to get - but gods ARE doing things to get more power. ( TV series season 2 spoilers ) Wednesday is preparing Shadow to be sacrificed, Tech Boy is destroying financial systems so people would pray to them. That sounds to me as much more Deeds than simple Worship.

                          To me, it's just point that in original Scion setting The World, gods are not 'hurt' by the lesser numbers of worshippers. In 'American Gods'-like setting, gods had retrieved and they need to regain their full power. Even when their are leagues between mortals and them - Old Gods are weakened by centuries of smaller worships and general inertia. This leads us to next point...

                          Originally posted by Mateus Luz View Post
                          I would make the process of recovering Legend related to sacrifice and worshipping ONLY... worshipping means people giving value to what they represent.
                          While an old god would gain legend by being worshiped, having people dedicating things to them, things like that... Easter (godess) gets some legend because Easter (holiday) is celebrated and they have a far connection (so some legend drops to her once in a while).
                          A new god gets legend from the people giving value to what they are, so Media gains Legend because people spend much time watching TV, and Techboy gains from the people needing Internet for everything...

                          Here is my counter offering for more cohesive rules of Legend in this hack:
                          Legend works for gods more or less just like in normal Scion 2E – HOWEVER, assume that each Old God has spent all his Legend until he modernise his operations and find new ways to generate worship. And the worship regenerating Legend of god beyond point 2 must not be simple prays – but the Deeds of worshipers themselves.

                          Reason why Legend of god is spent is secondary question – probably, each created by thy Scion is granted with 1 spent permanently god's Legend point. As long as Scion lives, usable Legend pool of the god is lowered than thy real maximum.

                          This mechanics would answer why Bilquis is reinvigorated with here 'dates'/worshipers after years of being forgotten – but still not gone to her full power. It also points why New Gods are more powerful now – they do not produce Scions, so they have all the free Legend points Old Gods do not have to use.
                          Last edited by wyrdhamster; 05-01-2019, 01:57 AM.


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                          • #28
                            You don’t need to create Scions to spend legend, the simple lack of legend points hold their power as they can’t invest or spend legend to use their powers. No legend to activate marvels and booms, no legend for activate titles, no legend to... anything...

                            When Bilquis “date” the she is making a sacrifice to herself, recovering some legend points, not legend Score.
                            The sacrifice Wednesday is preparing (Shadow or the big final battle) would generate a large number of legend points, that he can invest and don’t spend for a long time, keeping him powerful.
                            The new gods have a nice and constant supply of legend, so they CAN use their powers all they want.

                            The constant lack of legend powers can also make the gods look old or a bit lifeless, that’s why Easter keep her shining appearance, while the others don’t, her little supply is enough to keep her more than just surviving.


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                            • #29
                              So just for us to be on the same page – if we have Mr. Wednesday and Anansi from book/TV series, they have this levels:

                              Mr. Wednesday ( Odin )
                              Legend Max: 12
                              Legend Points: 4
                              Legend: 4/12

                              Anansi
                              Legend Max: 10
                              Legend Points: 2
                              Legend: 2/10

                              Something like that? That each Old God is not having full Legend Points because of small worship?
                              Last edited by wyrdhamster; 01-09-2020, 03:50 AM.


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                              • #30
                                Basically, yes. He can do something once in a while, gain a legend point from someone sacrifice. If he sacrifice a lot of people he would reach the 12 legend points available. Easter probably have 3 of 9, Wednesday 2 of 12 and Anansi 2 of 10.


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