The World

[Purple Snit]

I think that a lot of the "Scions work in secret" stuff stems from familiarity with superhero stories, where people have secret identities that wouldn't hold up for 5 minutes in the real world. Honestly, to me, the point of playing Scion is the whole "the old Gods never went away and their champions still do great deeds in the world" premise. Heracles didn't pretend he was an ordinary farmer between trials; Cu Chullain didn't deny his skills and talents, or hide under a cloak and stay out of trouble. Champions of the Gods, their deeds, and the things they fight, should be part of a Scion game. Otherwise, why play Scion? Yes, you have to change the history of the world a bit to take into account the other faiths and their representatives - but isn't thinking outside the box the reason we all game in the first place? Burying or hiding the divine and supernatural is WoD territory, not Scion's.

[Nyrufa]

Honestly, when I read Origin's base premise of the World being one where the Mythic and Divine are known and not actively pretending it doesn't exist, I was all for it.

And then I realized that honestly, the Masquerade of 1e was... How to phrase this?

Exceptionally dumb. Like, the Gods and Mythic tried to stay hidden to the degree that they let themselves be forgotten by many of their old worshippers, but are still around working in secret. Why? Shut up, that's why.

Yeah, that part always confused me. If the premise of the game is to build your Legend and eventually become a God with your own cult of worshipers... how the heck can a masquerade system exist? Who is going around spreading your Legend, if nobody knows about you? Why are people suddenly worshiping you, if your induction to the pantheon was kept a secret? The reason why the Masquerade exists in WoD, is because the World would turn on you in a heartbeat, if they found out what you were. But in Scion, that's not strictly the case. And outside of Fatebonds, there's virtually nothing that ordinary mortals can do to you after hitting Demigod level.

As for Heroes, yeah, many of them live in the limelight. Many appear on Social Media, make speeches, some probably give their names to crappy products for a cut of the sales. Now your game may have fewer or more heroes than others. I know a lot of people like to keep Scion numbers low.

Like. Less than a thousand worldwide, small. The books at one point tell you that the number of Scions in the World is "As many as your game needs"

Actually, now that I think about it, having a large number of Scions might be justified, when you consider the fact that ascending to Godhood is generally considered RARE in the world of Scion. Most of them will end up failing along the way, either because they decide to retire from the gig, or even being outright killed by the pissed off monsters they have to contend with. It's been many years since I've read Greek mythology, but I know they were big, big fans of tragedy.

Many characters in their stories end up with terrible fates, often as a result of their own hubris. But sometimes it's through no fault of their own, as their enemies simply overreact to some perceived slight against them!

[No One of Consequence]

I honestly have this image in my head of a group of Scions deciding that the fastest way to build their Legends is to be superheros.

[MythAdvocate]

Actually, now that I think about it, having a large number of Scions might be justified, when you consider the fact that ascending to Godhood is generally considered RARE in the world of Scion. Most of them will end up failing along the way, either because they decide to retire from the gig, or even being outright killed by the pissed off monsters they have to contend with. It's been many years since I've read Greek mythology, but I know they were big, big fans of tragedy.
Many characters in their stories end up with terrible fates, often as a result of their own hubris. But sometimes it's through no fault of their own, as their enemies simply overreact to some perceived slight against them!

Now this is what I see as a major limiter to Scion numbers AND the open activity of Gods. Show yourself too often (for gods) or rise in power too fast (Scions), and rivals and/or someone higher up in the food chain will take advantage. And Titans make an easy cover for this game of Fate.

[Nyrufa]

I honestly have this image in my head of a group of Scions deciding that the fastest way to build their Legends is to be superheros.

And along the way, they advance from Neighborhood (Origin), to City (Hero), to National (Demigod), and finally Global (God) level feats!

[glamourweaver]

I honestly have this image in my head of a group of Scions deciding that the fastest way to build their Legends is to be superheros.

Assuming superheroes as we know them are a concept in the World - could easily be that comic books arose as a DeiFic medium instead, and popular comics are the modern way that the adventures of Scions of ascending Legend are spread.

[Nyrufa]

Assuming superheroes as we know them are a concept in the World - could easily be that instead comic books arose as a DeiFic medium instead, and popular comics are the modern way that the adventures of Scions of ascending Legend are spread.

"The chronicle of (insert name) issue #1. Theologists around the world have competed for decades to get their hands on this sacred manuscript!"

[No One of Consequence]

Honestly, if Nexus didn't have its rule about monotheist material, I'd be tempted to try doing something about the various "lost" apocrypha gospels about Jesus's adventures with various gods. Not that said gospels would necessarily be true, just that in a world where gods objectively exist, such things are out there, even if the Synod of Hippo and other meetings didn't accept them as canon.

[glamourweaver]

Honestly, if Nexus didn't have its rule about monotheist material, I'd be tempted to try doing something about the various "lost" apocrypha gospels about Jesus's adventures with various gods. Not that said gospels would necessarily be true, just that in a world where gods objectively exist, such things are out there, even if the Synod of Hippo and other meetings didn't accept them as canon.

I’m just going to post my stuff online for free. I’ve been working on it for a year damn it!

[Purple Snit]

The other thing that gets overlooked in the "masquerade" talk, is that Scion is set in a world where the old powers never went away - so it simply isn't news that the Gods and their Scions exist and do supernatural things. In our world, sure, it would be odd, and there might be a government agency set up to investigate. But if heroes and monsters are accepted, if the Gods are known to be real, why would it be the subject of mass panic or government intervention? I doubt the Greeks thought that it was particularly weird when a Scion showed up - if the Gods never went away, why would it be particularly world-shaking news now?

[Nyrufa]

The other thing that gets overlooked in the "masquerade" talk, is that Scion is set in a world where the old powers never went away - so it simply isn't news that the Gods and their Scions exist and do supernatural things. In our world, sure, it would be odd, and there might be a government agency set up to investigate. But if heroes and monsters are accepted, if the Gods are known to be real, why would it be the subject of mass panic or government intervention? I doubt the Greeks thought that it was particularly weird when a Scion showed up - if the Gods never went away, why would it be particularly world-shaking news now?

From what I understand of 2nd edition, the reason why the Gods don't openly announce themselves as often as they used to, is because their Fateful Aura is really, really damn powerful. Religious communities base their culture and way of life around the examples set forth by their deities. So when a God shows up in their full glory and starts interacting with people, their worshipers are going to be feverishly taking notes on the subject. And based on the God's behavior, they could unwittingly cause massive, permanent changes on the cultures who revere them.

So, in order to avoid that from happening, they act through proxy agents, like Scions and Denizens. Their aura isn't as strong, and the impact they leave on the community is not as great as a full deity would be. It's not that the Gods can't openly interact with the world, but rather they've come to realize that the potential risks outweigh the potential benefits.

[Mike McCall]

As I understand it, it's also because Fatebinding can reshape a God's nature, possibly creating new Mantles. Since the Gods like themselves the way they are, they avoid pushing their luck in the World.

[Nyrufa]

As I understand it, it's also because Fatebinding can reshape a God's nature, possibly creating new Mantles. Since the Gods like themselves the way they are, they avoid pushing their luck in the World.

Not so much nature, as the course of their life. The Gods being shaped by Fate was more of a 1E thing. It's how their connection to mortals allowed them to evolve from their Titan origins.

In 2E, it seems more like Fate will conspire to put the Gods in situations where they continue to behave in a way which mortals have come to perceive them. For example, a God may not have an intrinsic desire to spread misery to others. But if that's the way mortals have come to perceive them, then Fate will continue to place them in situations where spreading misery is the most likely outcome for the God involved.

[Purple Snit]

Sure, but that's also why Athena or Tezcatlipoca or Nuada didn't pop up in person much during their respective cultures' golden ages; Fatebinding. But their existence was a given, and their Scions weren't a secret. Suggesting a modern-day "Masquerade", or that Scions fighting the supernatural would be a gigantic revelatory moment for society, doesn't fit with "they never went away". "There are Giants, and a woman claiming to be Thor's Champion fought them? Cool!" Not something you see everyday in Alaska, but not an unheard of event that spawns an "X-files" bureau to look in to an unknown phenomenon. Yes, governments might try to get them on-side for political/military/propaganda reasons. But they know Scions (and Gods) exist, what they are, and who they serve.

[Kyman201]

How Gods and Fatebindings can Work, a Primer

Scion uses the term 'Fate', but it's probably a bit more accurate to think of it as 'Narrative Drive' or something like that. It loves a good story, and it loves resonant characters, and a good supporting cast. That's why even cultures and Gods from places with fluid definitions of Fate that fall outside "This shall happen" are still bound to it.

At Hero level, Fate is at its weakest, normally manifesting as Fatebindings to get you a supporting cast, and probably a measure of GM Fiat to ensure that a Hero's life is rarely boring. But it can be shaken off. If you don't want someone to fall into the niche of Boon Companion even if you two really get along and you really play off one-another, and they're always really helpful to have around... You can. You can walk away, and the Fatebinding will fade.

The thing is, the Hero book mentions that Fate 'grows in its teeth', so to speak, at Demigod level, and gets even fiercer at God Tier. It mentions that Demigods can also be tied to Groups and the like. But when you get to God, Fate can be more than just a suggestion.

Example: If Dionysus takes a mortal form and walks the World, maybe, let's just say hypothetically, he wants to just have a quiet night. Change things up a bit, NOT have things devolve into a destructive celebration slash orgy slash riot that takes a group of overworked Heroes to clean up after.

Fate would take exception to this, because excuse me, you're Dionysus. And it will get markedly more aggressive. If Dionysus decides not to visit a bar, then Fate will conspire that some team just won a Sportsball game, and now the fans are partying in the streets, and someone just shoved a beer into Dionysus's hand.

If he walks from THAT, he'll run into some drunk college students saying there's a party at a fraternity nearby.

And each time, it's REALLY tough to walk away, because Fate pulls, and surely one beer can't hurt.

Because Everyone knows that Dionysus is Partying and Revelry. It's part of his identity. If a Scion were to take up the Mantle of Dionysus, they would do so knowing full well the baggage that comes with.

So, that's what Fatebinding does to Gods. It constantly reminds them of who they are and what they do. And when they act out of character, it's there to go "A-hem, pardon me, Zeus... WHY aren't you fucking some random floozie right now?"

Now the thing is, Gods can still accrue Deeds even at their level, if they're observed. And sometimes meaning that wasn't intended can be applied to these Deeds. ESPECIALLY in the age of social media, where instead of just one local group witnessing a manifestation, now the entire WORLD can just from one quick appearance. Now, this isn't a case where Belief Alone will change a God. The Temple of Doom didn't do shit to Kali, because that was just a whole bucket of Unfortunate Stereotyping, and has no base.

But, behavior and the meaning ascribed to acts can.

An example I've used in the past is this hypothetical: Imagine, if you will, there's a Giant. Real big one, able to step over a mountain. And it's attacking a city. And Thor happens to be there, because Thor is the Giant Slayer. So far, so good.

However, while people are recording this (because fuck yeah, THOR), Thor shoves a homeless person to the side with a loud "OUT OF MY WAY!", and this was caught on film.

Now, THOR knows that he just did that because the human was in his way, and he needed to kill the giant. Hell, he may have even apologized for it afterwards. But if you were to witness that clip in isolation... It DID happen. And if it gets uploaded to the internet with the title "Thor Hates Poor People"... Well, if people believe THAT, from that clip, that did happen... THEN it's possible that Thor will get Fatebound to a kind of role of Super Elitist Poor-Person-Hater.

And that is why the Gods fear the modern media's risk of Fatebinding. And why they usually operate through Intermediaries. Mostly the Heroes, for whom Fate is weakest.