The World

[Nyrufa]

Honestly, when I read Origin's base premise of the World being one where the Mythic and Divine are known and not actively pretending it doesn't exist, I was all for it.

And then I realized that honestly, the Masquerade of 1e was... How to phrase this?

Exceptionally dumb. Like, the Gods and Mythic tried to stay hidden to the degree that they let themselves be forgotten by many of their old worshippers, but are still around working in secret. Why? Shut up, that's why.

Yeah, that part always confused me. If the premise of the game is to build your Legend and eventually become a God with your own cult of worshipers... how the heck can a masquerade system exist? Who is going around spreading your Legend, if nobody knows about you? Why are people suddenly worshiping you, if your induction to the pantheon was kept a secret? The reason why the Masquerade exists in WoD, is because the World would turn on you in a heartbeat, if they found out what you were. But in Scion, that's not strictly the case. And outside of Fatebonds, there's virtually nothing that ordinary mortals can do to you after hitting Demigod level.

As for Heroes, yeah, many of them live in the limelight. Many appear on Social Media, make speeches, some probably give their names to crappy products for a cut of the sales. Now your game may have fewer or more heroes than others. I know a lot of people like to keep Scion numbers low.

Like. Less than a thousand worldwide, small. The books at one point tell you that the number of Scions in the World is "As many as your game needs"

Actually, now that I think about it, having a large number of Scions might be justified, when you consider the fact that ascending to Godhood is generally considered RARE in the world of Scion. Most of them will end up failing along the way, either because they decide to retire from the gig, or even being outright killed by the pissed off monsters they have to contend with. It's been many years since I've read Greek mythology, but I know they were big, big fans of tragedy.

Many characters in their stories end up with terrible fates, often as a result of their own hubris. But sometimes it's through no fault of their own, as their enemies simply overreact to some perceived slight against them!

[Purple Snit]

I think that a lot of the "Scions work in secret" stuff stems from familiarity with superhero stories, where people have secret identities that wouldn't hold up for 5 minutes in the real world. Honestly, to me, the point of playing Scion is the whole "the old Gods never went away and their champions still do great deeds in the world" premise. Heracles didn't pretend he was an ordinary farmer between trials; Cu Chullain didn't deny his skills and talents, or hide under a cloak and stay out of trouble. Champions of the Gods, their deeds, and the things they fight, should be part of a Scion game. Otherwise, why play Scion? Yes, you have to change the history of the world a bit to take into account the other faiths and their representatives - but isn't thinking outside the box the reason we all game in the first place? Burying or hiding the divine and supernatural is WoD territory, not Scion's.

[No One of Consequence]

I think the only major way a Masquerade would fit with Scion is if the Myth Knobs (tm) were set to certain levels in an Iron-occasionally-touching-Heroic set up that was designed as a conspiracy theory thing. Something like The DaVinci Code, but the person in question is related to Apollo instead of Jesus. Or maybe Angel Heart, but Louis Cypher is actually Legba. Which might be interesting, but not the game's natural default.

The impression I have of 2nd ed is that everyone generally knows that the Mythic is real and around, but don't really think about it unless it actively shows up, at which point it is just there and reacted to a appropriate. Like I go about my daily 9 to 5 life, until one day a fox spirit shows up at my apartment insisting that they do all the cooking and cleaning because of a debt owed my late grandmother. After only a brief bit of confusion on my part, this just becomes my new routine. And even my neighbors don't question it.

[glamourweaver]

1e Scion’s setting would have been workable if they’d actually dealt with “the gods were distant and mythic gone sessile, but with the Titan escape they’re activating their kids for the first time in millennia!” and then actually explored the fallout of a world like ours suddently having mythic monster attacks and divinely powered heroes responding on main street.

But instead it actively ignored the repercussions of the mythic suddenly emerging leaving the implications that it somehow stayed hidden? For some reason?-

[Kyman201]

Honestly, when I read Origin's base premise of the World being one where the Mythic and Divine are known and not actively pretending it doesn't exist, I was all for it.

And then I realized that honestly, the Masquerade of 1e was... How to phrase this?

Exceptionally dumb. Like, the Gods and Mythic tried to stay hidden to the degree that they let themselves be forgotten by many of their old worshippers, but are still around working in secret. Why? Shut up, that's why.

Like, to make it clear, a lot of Masquerades in urban fantasy are dumb and really shouldn't last any length of time by any reasonable measure, and assume a level of skepticism that humanity in general just doesn't seem to possess.

Plus, it wasn't a good tonal match for what Scion allegedly was going to be about, and it certainly doesn't fit what Scion 2e is trying to be. Scion 2e is not a game that requires the mythic to actively hide itself. In most myths, it's never treated as some kind of big reveal crossing-the-threshold moment that the Gods are real. It'd be like trying to make a big deal out of pointing out that the sky is blue.

Yeah, no shit, Random Greek Farmer. Of COURSE Poseidon's real, where do you think earthquakes come from?

It's similar in the World. Of course the Gods are real. And basically none of them would pretend to NOT be real but still be active in the World, not without a very good reason. A reason 1e never provided, and which most settings hacks I've seen fail to provide other than "Because I think it's better"

And often, it's not. It's clinging to a cliche that makes no sense for no reason other than to cling to a cliche. A very very VERY dumb one that is not needed for Scion.

So don't make Scion into World of Darkness. Or Chronicle. Or whatever the Noun is. It's not. Scion is Scion. Let the Noun of Darkness be the Noun of Darkness. Scion absolutely CAN have conspiracies, hidden actions, covert manipulations...

But c'mon. It's a game about heroes. Embrace it. Be a hero, and do so without people going "Psh, everyone knows Indra is just a legend". Dare to have your character be able to say "I am the Chosen daughter of Sarasvati, here to save the day" and receive cheers and praise for it.

Have a little joy.

Edit: If you INSIST on having the Mythic have been quiet for so long (possibly to avoid stepping on any historical land mines, you all know what I'm referring to) then a possible Setting hack isn't that the Divine actively hides itself, but that the Gods were asleep or withdrew from the World for a time. And now they're coming back, in force, and taking a bigger role in the World once more.

Edit2: And if you want there to be some Big Reveal of a Greater World, don't use the boring "This is REAL! I knew it!" as the Reveal. Make the reveal be "Oh shit I'm a Protagonist!"

[glamourweaver]

Masks of the Mythos is going to be harder Iron, with some additional optional rule tweaks for that.

For the World, default Origin bridges Iron and Heroic, Hero Bridges Heroic and Bronze, Demigod bridges Bronze and Silver, God will bridge Silver and Gold.

The Bronze elements for Origin in the World are generally in terms of things known to exist, but not necessarily things PCs are assumes to directly interact with before being Heroes. Knowing those Bronze elements exist does not make the gameplay Bronze.

[No One of Consequence]

I'm a little curious to see what sort of Nexus stuff people come up with just from adjusting the Myth dials. X-Files/BPRD and Harry Potter/Percy Jackson would be the most obvious ones, but I'm sure there are a lot of potential beautifully mad ideas out there.

[MythAdvocate]

Personally, I would be very interested in exploring a story that ranges between Bronze and Gold level. I think over time, I became disappointed with the idea of settings which take place after the fall of a golden age of prosperity. In which the most powerful feats of magic and technology are the work of civilizations that have long since succumbed to ruin, and faded from people's collective knowledge.
I've always wanted to see a story that takes place during such a mythical age, where such wondrous achievements were common place, instead of laying half buried in some ancient temple in the middle of nowhere.
I know that such a chronicle would deviate heavily from the premise that Scion is supposed to be about. But I still think it would be great story to tell at least once.

An interesting option might be that the Golden stuff is battling a terrible threat out in the Cosmos. Like the "God Wars" went off planet, but are now returning. This could also be a means to prune the gods a bit. Perhaps Apollo is the King of the Greek Gods now. Baldur the king of the Aesir etc.

[Nyrufa]

Default, vanilla 2E The World is set clearly on Bronze Level on general - even if Origin points it starts in Iron Level.

Personally, I would be very interested in exploring a story that ranges between Bronze and Gold level. I think over time, I became disappointed with the idea of settings which take place after the fall of a golden age of prosperity. In which the most powerful feats of magic and technology are the work of civilizations that have long since succumbed to ruin, and faded from people's collective knowledge.

I've always wanted to see a story that takes place during such a mythical age, where such wondrous achievements were common place, instead of laying half buried in some ancient temple in the middle of nowhere.

I know that such a chronicle would deviate heavily from the premise that Scion is supposed to be about. But I still think it would be great story to tell at least once.

[wyrdhamster]

Hi! I'm a 'new guy for Scion from Chronicles of Darkness', who started those 'heated debates' you read about.

I did not play 1E Scion, only got general gist of it, and wanted to run 2E ( I still plan to do it ). But as coming from CoD - like WoD - I'm much more into 'Gods and Myths should be hidden from mortal' Masquerade, like in American Gods - that is hack-ish stance. ( It's not ban in 2E, only general consensus it's you are doing it on your own risk and canonical gameline do not assume it. )

The official book will go in depths on it, called Scion 2E Companion - with it's Myths Levels chronicles concepts ( that are already on Scion: Origin book ). Here is small quote about it.

CHAPTER ONE: MYTH LEVEL

The Myth Level is five options along four axes of design, meant to allow the Storyguide to choose how many of Scion’s setting “dials” they want to crank. This chapter lays out what each of those dials looks like at each of the five Myth Levels. Those Myth Levels are:

• Iron: Perfectly mundane. Very similar in nature and tone to Gaiman’s American Gods, where ifriti are cab drivers, Odhinn is a shiftless wandering con man, and Chernobog and the goddesses of dawn, midday and evening are poor immigrants scraping by in a shitty apartment in Chicago.
• Heroic: Mostly mundane, but with room for great acts of heroism. Most supernatural creatures still have mundane manifestations here (that centaur is still just a biker here), but Scions and gods may appear as impressive and tremendous – Aphrodite isn’t some burnt out barfly here, she’s drop-dead gorgeous and probably on fashion covers. This is the level of the Iliad and the Odyssey.
• Bronze: This is where the supernatural really comes into play. Creatures of Legend shed their mundane disguises in areas of Bronze Myth, and appear in their true nature. Magic becomes overt here, and Demigods wield their true power. This is Clash of the Titans territory, and there might just actually be dragons in that undetailed area of the map.
• Silver: Past the threshold of urban myth and getting into epic fantasy, places of Silver Myth are deeply resonant with Myth. They are often fanciful places and hidden vales of magic technically found in the World, but not of it. The power of a creature of Legend is reflected in its appearance – the mightier the entity, the more impressive it appears. Zelazny’s Lord of Light goes into this area of Myth in its narrative.
• Gold: Flat-out mythological, where symbolism is the same as its reality. Places of Gold Myth are not even of this World. Lots of Scion 1e went into this territory, with its otherworldly locales, and lots of fantasy that touches on extradimensional areas and the like qualify.

The trick is this: you should be able to choose a starting Myth Level and then turn each dial up or down within that level to taste. So, for instance, as Storyguide I might choose to start at the Iron Level but crank the Titanomachy up, turning American Gods into a raging shadow war that you have to keep peeling back layers of the World to see.

Default, vanilla 2E The World is set clearly on Bronze Level on general - even if Origin points it starts in Iron Level.

Here is my 'heated debate' with some of users you already read that write how everyday interactions of Gods and mortals in vanilla Scion 2E The World looks like - Everyday life with Gods

And here is my own 2E Hack with world that follows general WoD/CoD policy 'The Herd Must Not Know' - [2E Setting Hack] Gods in Hiding and new Mythic Age

[Jürgen Hubert]

Another advantage to limiting the amount of Heroes per God (as opposed to all Scions) is that then you will have some really intense sibling rivalry between pre-Visitation Scions about who gets to be the next one after the current occupant of the "Hero slot" passes on (either by becoming a Demigod or by dying - and the latter might be... encouraged by a sibling).

It's not how I would run my game, but this has some interesting implications.

[Watcher]

The numbers I tend to go with in my Scion games are 0-3 Scions per Pantheon (with exceptions for Pantheons that have religious systems that require a certain number of Scions for various reasons). Not only limited to the Pantheons written in Hero, this results in several thousand globally. But, that tends to be because I emphasize the importance of Scions from a social/legal/political situation for the Pantheons and thereby Scions are both a huge investment and as much as they are useful tools, are also potential liabilities.

[Mike McCall]

I refuse to count heads on either a per-god or total basis. My Hong Kong game has only a couple of Scions besides the PC band in town, because they asked to be the people who fixed a messed-up situation, and the situation I worked out was centred on the anti-Buddhist Titanspawn who were running organized crime. My Philadelphia game is built around a floating troupe of Scions. We have 12 PCs so far, plus the 3 SGC Scions or prophets who run the place, plus the contract killer Scion of Loki they just accidentally ran out of town. My feeling is that there's about 20-25 Scions in Philly (which is meant to be high).

[Possessed]

And what is more mythic than larger than life sibling rivarly? That is the Theoi in a nutshell.

Also as pointed out some gods will bed pretty much anything so it is unlikely such arrangements could last.

But like Jürgen said Your World Will Vary.

[Jürgen Hubert]

If you want to limit their numbers, I'd recommend limiting the number of Scions who have actually received a Visitation as opposed to the total number of Scions per deity. After all, many of the Gods are rather lustful...

But canonically, the Gods are slowly moving towards a new war footing against the Titans, which is why they want to increase the number of Scions in the world right now. Your World Will Vary, of course - but then you'll probably want to downplay the renewed Titanomachy.