Would You Mix Scion and the Mythos?

[omenseer]

I am not completely opposed to mixing Mythos and Scion, but I would take a different take from the Mythos book. Basically the Mythos would be treated as Titans at best. I would consider the mutation rules on the table for them. Pretty much every pantheon has a equivalent of on Elder Sign to lock out Mythos entities (and potentially shut down the use of Awareness). I wouldn't put them outside Fate, but would rather favour tying their Fatebindings to places and objects over people.
I'd even go so far as to have the Orisha and the Titanomachy oppose them as a threat.

The Mythos does not play nice with others within their own continuity and by the rules as written are potentially a lot more powerful. I'd houserule that Awareness cannot be used for Divine Rule or Divine Opposition. Remember Awareness exists alongside Legend and can be used for pretty much everything Legend can unless stated otherwise.

My primary issue with Mythos is its own book pretty much states that they are objectively correct and supports this mechanically; which i have issues in a setting that takes the concept of "All Myths are True" and runs with it. But there is enough to make it workable if you are careful.

Yeah, that's a similar take I would go with.

[FallenEco]

I am not completely opposed to mixing Mythos and Scion, but I would take a different take from the Mythos book. Basically the Mythos would be treated as Titans at best. I would consider the mutation rules on the table for them. Pretty much every pantheon has a equivalent of on Elder Sign to lock out Mythos entities (and potentially shut down the use of Awareness). I wouldn't put them outside Fate, but would rather favour tying their Fatebindings to places and objects over people.
I'd even go so far as to have the Orisha and the Titanomachy oppose them as a threat.

The Mythos does not play nice with others within their own continuity and by the rules as written are potentially a lot more powerful. I'd houserule that Awareness cannot be used for Divine Rule or Divine Opposition. Remember Awareness exists alongside Legend and can be used for pretty much everything Legend can unless stated otherwise.

My primary issue with Mythos is its own book pretty much states that they are objectively correct and supports this mechanically; which i have issues in a setting that takes the concept of "All Myths are True" and runs with it. But there is enough to make it workable if you are careful.

[Dataweaver]

“Fate is humanity's collective memory” and “developing into a genius loci spirit out of humanity's collective willpower alone” strike me as being ideas more suitable for Mage: the Ascension than Scion.

[Yama951]

One take I thought of is having mythos beings be the result of gods and other similar beings that found themselves surviving being disconnected from Humanity and its collective memory that is Fate. The write up of the proto-Indo-European god that is Dyeus Pitar is a good example of the idea. Imagine the forgotten gods of the neanderthals or of the cultures that the proto-Indo-European ended up displacing, the gods of the Basque's lost cultural relatives or the gods that form when humanity just came out of Africa. And then the rediscovery of relics results in a connection forming to the lost deities once more.

Could even use the whole 'Mythos beings are outside of Fate' by having Fate represent Humanity's never ending quest to find meaning in the universe and the very ability for pattern recognition. Had the Face of Mars remained more culturally relevant, it might actually develop into a genius loci spirit out of humanity's collective will power alone like the Man on the Moon and the Jade Rabbits. Though that also means cryptids, aliens, and other modern beings like Slenderman are technically recently created denizens of the World if you apply the Denizen rules for mythological beings living in society. If I understand that right.

[TheStray7]

Very nice.

Yeah, it's a way to inject Cosmic Horror while describing actual Astronomy stuff in a mythic way. For instance, diamond stars (stellar remnants that have fused much of their mass into carbon, which has crystalized) are a real thing they've discovered, and white dwarfs can emit radio signals we can detect for billions of years. Combine that with a total perspective vortex-like idea of existential dread at the sheer vastness of cosmic time, and it made for a really cool idea for an entity. Lovecraft found ways of making colors, angles, music, paintings, and freaking air conditioning scary with good description -- it's the same sort of principle here. And it's one of the main ways you can make the Mythos work with the idea of Scion -- by focusing on the mythic elements. Lovecraft used his Mythos to explore what he was afraid of -- this is a thing that mythology has been doing forever.

[omenseer]

It's fun. here's an example, along with a Relic, to give you a better idea of what this looks like.

Zhuduun, The Hardening Heart
Aliases: The Pale Death, The Diamond Star, The Wailing Light

Zhuduun is a corpse star, a speck of light slowly cooling in the night, its heart hardening into an unbreakable diamond. Once one of the wisest and oldest of stars, Zhuduun's mournful, bitter sobs ring out like a distant gong into eternity, only to be heard by those touched by tragedy and death, and its pale light is cursed to only ever shine on scenes of great destruction and tragedy.

Zhuduun is unfathomably old, and it's dying. It has been dying since before the The Shattering, having collapsed in on itself sometime during the Age of Wonders when it burned the last of its fuel, expelling most of itself in one last scream that left only a small, white core floating in a sea of star dust. But that core will burn for an unfathomably long time...it will spend tenfold the time that Creation has been in existence burning itself to a black diamond. And it knows this. Those with the right kind of ears can hear its plaintive, keening wail as it sits, trapped in the dust of its own corpse, until the end of time.

But Zhuduun, like all the awakened Stars, can reach the minds of mortals. it has spend Ages contemplating its existence, and it has decided that it does not want to endure the torment of waiting for the end. It will rebel, and it will find a way to kill itself quicker. And those fleeting mortal minds it finds will help it along to blessed, peaceful oblivion. It Chooses those who can understand it, those whose lives have been touched by tragedy and death. If you have suffered a great loss, you may yet find yourself dreaming of the dim white star that wails endlessly in the night.

Callings: Destroyer, Sage, Primeval

Purviews: Artistry (Song), Death, Curses (Fortune), Epic Stamina, Passion (Despair)

The Diamond-Heart Fragments (••)

Purview: Death
Motif: Do not call up that which you cannot put down.

These curiously large shards of diamond are said to come from the slow-chilling heart of Zhuduun, The Pale Death. Each contains a strange psychic resonance -- by meditating in the presence of the fragments one can induce a lucid dream that connects the user to the fragment, which contains an intense, painful burst of raw emotion and thought, forcing the dreamer to experience a few seconds of the existential terror of a slowly-extinguishing star that will be dying for longer than the mortal races will exist. This glimpse into eternity often blasts the user out of their meditative state in a jolt of agony that leaves them keening for hours on end. Most do not survive the experience, dying of a stroke or heart attack as they writhe on the ground, and even those who do survive are not keen to repeat it. But those who survive the psychic blast and have a keen, analytical mind can sift through the information that was imprinted into their brain.

Zhuduun has had eons to contemplate death as it slowly cools in the eternity of the Astral Sea, as well as to experiment with the forces of Time and Life in an effort to hasten its own nonexistence and the sweet release of oblivion. These musings on the nature of Time, Life, and how they might be manipulated grant those who hold the shards a great deal of power. To Zhuduun, the endless life/death/rebirth cycle of the mortal races is a puzzle, and through its Scions it has been able to conduct certain experiments. The information encoded into The Diamond-Heart Fragments contain secrets of the necromantic arts, particularly the art of raising people from the dead using their "essential salts," the ashes and remains of a particular corpse, returning them back to life. This sort of experimentation usually results in the creation of an undead creature or a Hollow, but even this allows the dead person to be questioned, allowing the necromancer to learn secrets many would think lost forever.

It's said that Myrkul used The Diamond-Heart Fragments to fuel his rise to divinity, first by learning how to raise the dead, then by learning how to become a lich, then by learning how to become a God by slaying another God, and that he encoded these revelations in his dread tome, the Necronomicon. As Myrkul never lets the book out of his sight, the truth of this rumor may never be known.

• Knack: The Scion or sorcerer may use the knowledge gained from the Fragments to call up the long dead from their essential salts and dissolve them back to these salts by spending a Point of Legend (or Tension, if an SGC). The subject of the spell is not necessarily cooperative, resulting in a Clash of Wills between the user and the newly raised dead. This is a Marvel that usually emulates the effect of the Unquiet Dead boon, but can actually raise the subject as a temporary Follower (up to 3 dots, unless you've accidentally summoned something massively more powerful as per this relic's Flaw). The raised dead is usually made Hollow by this process, and the only way to put it down again is to reverse the process (which requires spending another point of Legend); otherwise, the Follower stays under your control until the end of the current Story, at which point it is free to do as it wills. A given Fragment can only control one Follower at a time -- attempting to raise another one frees the current one from the Scion's control.
• Flaw: Sometimes it is not possible for the Scion or sorcerer to put down what they called up. Gravestones are lost or switched, or the inscription might have been wrong. It's possible that what the Scion thinks they're summoning is something that they aren't prepared to face. The Storyguide may spend a point of Tension when the Fragment's Knack is used to switch out for someone (or something) dangerous and hostile. This is usually at least a Rival-level Antagonist who is not happy with the Scion or sorcerer and is also not in any way under their control.

Very nice.

[TheStray7]

That's interesting.

It's fun. here's an example, along with a Relic, to give you a better idea of what this looks like.

Zhuduun, The Hardening Heart
Aliases: The Pale Death, The Diamond Star, The Wailing Light

Zhuduun is a corpse star, a speck of light slowly cooling in the night, its heart hardening into an unbreakable diamond. Once one of the wisest and oldest of stars, Zhuduun's mournful, bitter sobs ring out like a distant gong into eternity, only to be heard by those touched by tragedy and death, and its pale light is cursed to only ever shine on scenes of great destruction and tragedy.

Zhuduun is unfathomably old, and it's dying. It has been dying since before the The Shattering, having collapsed in on itself sometime during the Age of Wonders when it burned the last of its fuel, expelling most of itself in one last scream that left only a small, white core floating in a sea of star dust. But that core will burn for an unfathomably long time...it will spend tenfold the time that Creation has been in existence burning itself to a black diamond. And it knows this. Those with the right kind of ears can hear its plaintive, keening wail as it sits, trapped in the dust of its own corpse, until the end of time.

But Zhuduun, like all the awakened Stars, can reach the minds of mortals. it has spend Ages contemplating its existence, and it has decided that it does not want to endure the torment of waiting for the end. It will rebel, and it will find a way to kill itself quicker. And those fleeting mortal minds it finds will help it along to blessed, peaceful oblivion. It Chooses those who can understand it, those whose lives have been touched by tragedy and death. If you have suffered a great loss, you may yet find yourself dreaming of the dim white star that wails endlessly in the night.

Callings: Destroyer, Sage, Primeval

Purviews: Artistry (Song), Death, Curses (Fortune), Epic Stamina, Passion (Despair)

The Diamond-Heart Fragments (••)

Purview: Death
Motif: Do not call up that which you cannot put down.

These curiously large shards of diamond are said to come from the slow-chilling heart of Zhuduun, The Pale Death. Each contains a strange psychic resonance -- by meditating in the presence of the fragments one can induce a lucid dream that connects the user to the fragment, which contains an intense, painful burst of raw emotion and thought, forcing the dreamer to experience a few seconds of the existential terror of a slowly-extinguishing star that will be dying for longer than the mortal races will exist. This glimpse into eternity often blasts the user out of their meditative state in a jolt of agony that leaves them keening for hours on end. Most do not survive the experience, dying of a stroke or heart attack as they writhe on the ground, and even those who do survive are not keen to repeat it. But those who survive the psychic blast and have a keen, analytical mind can sift through the information that was imprinted into their brain.

Zhuduun has had eons to contemplate death as it slowly cools in the eternity of the Astral Sea, as well as to experiment with the forces of Time and Life in an effort to hasten its own nonexistence and the sweet release of oblivion. These musings on the nature of Time, Life, and how they might be manipulated grant those who hold the shards a great deal of power. To Zhuduun, the endless life/death/rebirth cycle of the mortal races is a puzzle, and through its Scions it has been able to conduct certain experiments. The information encoded into The Diamond-Heart Fragments contain secrets of the necromantic arts, particularly the art of raising people from the dead using their "essential salts," the ashes and remains of a particular corpse, returning them back to life. This sort of experimentation usually results in the creation of an undead creature or a Hollow, but even this allows the dead person to be questioned, allowing the necromancer to learn secrets many would think lost forever.

It's said that Myrkul used The Diamond-Heart Fragments to fuel his rise to divinity, first by learning how to raise the dead, then by learning how to become a lich, then by learning how to become a God by slaying another God, and that he encoded these revelations in his dread tome, the Necronomicon. As Myrkul never lets the book out of his sight, the truth of this rumor may never be known.

• Knack: The Scion or sorcerer may use the knowledge gained from the Fragments to call up the long dead from their essential salts and dissolve them back to these salts by spending a Point of Legend (or Tension, if an SGC). The subject of the spell is not necessarily cooperative, resulting in a Clash of Wills between the user and the newly raised dead. This is a Marvel that usually emulates the effect of the Unquiet Dead boon, but can actually raise the subject as a temporary Follower (up to 3 dots, unless you've accidentally summoned something massively more powerful as per this relic's Flaw). The raised dead is usually made Hollow by this process, and the only way to put it down again is to reverse the process (which requires spending another point of Legend); otherwise, the Follower stays under your control until the end of the current Story, at which point it is free to do as it wills. A given Fragment can only control one Follower at a time -- attempting to raise another one frees the current one from the Scion's control.
• Flaw: Sometimes it is not possible for the Scion or sorcerer to put down what they called up. Gravestones are lost or switched, or the inscription might have been wrong. It's possible that what the Scion thinks they're summoning is something that they aren't prepared to face. The Storyguide may spend a point of Tension when the Fragment's Knack is used to switch out for someone (or something) dangerous and hostile. This is usually at least a Rival-level Antagonist who is not happy with the Scion or sorcerer and is also not in any way under their control.

[omenseer]

That's interesting.

[TheStray7]

So how I use th Mythos stuff is how I use all Scion stuff -- I don't take it as is, I harvest it for parts. I basically took the Knacks and kitbashed a couple new Titanic Callings based on some of the twisted Callings, and used the Boons as Boons for Specialized Purviews.

For the game I'm planning to run, there's a Mythos-esque Pantheon, but because I'm running "D&D but it's Scion," I've basically taken the idea of The Stars of Ill-Omen from 4th Edition D&D (the patrons of the Star Pact Warlock, which was very Mythos-flavored) and am working to turn them into a proper Pantheon. The idea is that a force from the Far Realm has awoken several celestial objects into sentience, and that they experience reality as a slow, terrifying decline into entropy...one they'd prefer to hasten so they don't have to spend billions of years slowly dying. They vacillate between endless existential Sorrow and vast misplaced Rage, and they connect to mortals through The Region of Dreams, trying to connect to something to distract them from the endless slow burn to oblivion.

[omenseer]

I've quietly worked it in at the edges of my Scion Campaign as the players are moving on to Legend 3. It's been mostly things they cannot identify or have to do deeper research on and go to special places to find things. I saw a few of them pale when I mentioned they could find information on this one weird fertility idol at Miskatonic University.

But I did not have them run into the Mythos directly, but they did notice a weird magical miasma in the area that set them on edge. Something had laid claim to the area, but they had no idea what it was (in keeping with Lovecraftian horror tropes). When trying to contact their divine parents on the subject, the Gods were mostly noncommittal or replying back 'need more information' or 'this is a learning experience.' So...the players have kept the Mythos on the backburner while dealing with the shenanigans of the main opposition (Aesir Titan Cult).

The best way to handle Mythos encounters is keep it rare, relatively undefined, and disturbing. While the Titans do have relatively understandable ,if oppositional goals, the Mythos should be disturbing at the very least, high octane Nightmare Fuel as a middle group, and sometime just utterly incomprehensible on the far end.

I have run my campaign as leaning a bit on the action movie tropes x Mythic Cycle. To quietly integrate the Mythos into the game, I have used the Delta Green line of Cthulhu products to help. The Conspiracy PDF released recently has been of immense help, if you want to work it in subtly.

A good way to handle it.

[TheWanderingJewels]

I've quietly worked it in at the edges of my Scion Campaign as the players are moving on to Legend 3. It's been mostly things they cannot identify or have to do deeper research on and go to special places to find things. I saw a few of them pale when I mentioned they could find information on this one weird fertility idol at Miskatonic University.

But I did not have them run into the Mythos directly, but they did notice a weird magical miasma in the area that set them on edge. Something had laid claim to the area, but they had no idea what it was (in keeping with Lovecraftian horror tropes). When trying to contact their divine parents on the subject, the Gods were mostly noncommittal or replying back 'need more information' or 'this is a learning experience.' So...the players have kept the Mythos on the backburner while dealing with the shenanigans of the main opposition (Aesir Titan Cult).

The best way to handle Mythos encounters is keep it rare, relatively undefined, and disturbing. While the Titans do have relatively understandable ,if oppositional goals, the Mythos should be disturbing at the very least, high octane Nightmare Fuel as a middle group, and sometime just utterly incomprehensible on the far end.

I have run my campaign as leaning a bit on the action movie tropes x Mythic Cycle. To quietly integrate the Mythos into the game, I have used the Delta Green line of Cthulhu products to help. The Conspiracy PDF released recently has been of immense help, if you want to work it in subtly.

[Astromancer]

If you ever read Dreamquest for Unknown Kadath, you'd see that Lovecraft blended the Gods and the Mythos. Remember Lovecraft was an atheist who dearly loved mythology. His take on the "Gods" is that they are creatures born of human dreams. Powerful compared to humans, powerless compared to the Mythos beings.

That said, I like No One of Consequence's notion of Kali curbstomping Cthulhu. I could see Athena, Hermes, and Loki, cornering Nylarathotep, and catching him in a contract he'd truly hate. Dark Goat of the Woods meet the Irish War Goddesses, enjoy your beat down.

[omenseer]

The first story of my current Scion Chronicle was a Mythos story and it worked out rather well.

Cool. How did the meshing work?

[Archasimos]

The first story of my current Scion Chronicle was a Mythos story and it worked out rather well.

[omenseer]

I'm pondering the idea of a bunch of Titanic Scions gathered from various Pantheons selected as a sort of anti-Mythos suicide squad to go up against these gods/cults that even most of the Titans don't like for various reasons.

An interesting idea. One shot or short chronicle?