Preview: Once and Future

[IanWatson]

http://theonyxpath.com/once-and-future-preview/

[Muskrat]

I was skeptical of writing up the Welsh pantheon, given how little we know of actual Welsh mythology and how much the beings who appear in the Welsh tales we do have, have been euhemerized. But, based on what you've posted here, I like how you've handled it.

[No One of Consequence]

This sounds like a fun book. I'm very much looking forward to it.

[Geoffrey]

I was skeptical of writing up the Welsh pantheon, given how little we know of actual Welsh mythology and how much the beings who appear in the Welsh tales we do have, have been euhemerized. But, based on what you've posted here, I like how you've handled it.

Thank you. It wasn't an easy one to write and doubtless won't please everyone, but I have about thirty years experience on the source material, so I tried to do my best.

The rest of the book will be even better.

[Muskrat]

I imagine you can't say anything here, but I will be curious to see how you handled King Arthur and his court, given their strong ties to Christianity, which (at least up till now), those of you involved in making Scion have (understandably) avoided saying much about.

[Dataweaver]

The Christianity isn't really central to it. The Holy Grail is perhaps the only truly Christian element, and even that is something that, if I recall correctly, was a Christianized version of a Welsh(?) myth. I suspect that Once and Future will be able to get away with largely sidestepping the Christian elements.

[marin]

The Holy Grail is perhaps the only truly Christian element, and even that is something that, if I recall correctly, was a Christianized version of a Welsh(?) myth.

It's a subject of debate, let's say. (The argument being whether it's purely Christian, or adapted from earlier Celtic myth).

[Apregis]

The earliest reference to the Grail I found is in "Percival, the Story of Grail" by Chrétien de Troyes (one of the most prolific arthurian writer, who introduced Lancelot and his relation with Guinevre). At the time its only a side story and the Grail is not that important, neither holy, and the story was never ended by de Troyes. It's later in the Vulgate Cycle that the Grail become Holy and a main element of the story. The Vulgate Cycle also christianize many parrt of the mythos (Merlin and Morgan for exemple). So unless I missed something (which is entierly possible) the Grail was invented for the Arthurian Mythos by Chrétien of Troyes.

That said Welsh Mythology, like Irish and even Norse, only came to us by the writting of christian monks so most of the myths we know from them where partially christianized.

[Astromancer]

The Church, even in the Middle Ages, always saw the Grail as a pagan thing that had been misunderstood as Christian. Although the Vulgate form of the Grail legend was seen as Christian in sentiment.

Fun fact Graal, the word de Troyes used, refers to a platter with a high rim to keep sauces from spilling off the plate. It was used to serve lamb. Thus the link between the lamb served at Easter dinner and the Lamb of God was an easy stretch.

[Apregis]

After a bit of research I found that Christian Mythos had the Holy Chalice (the cup Jesus used when sharing wine with his Apostles). After de Troyes story of the Grail, another author named Robert de Boron identified the Grail as the Holy Chalice and the Vulgate Cycle took the idea. But I think we go out topic.

Erasing most of the Christian influences in Arthurian Mythos will erase a lot of the modern flavour (could be bad or good), I think the best way would be to have two sides in the pantheon: one closer to the celtic root (the Welsh side) and the other influenced by Crhstianity (the Arthurian side).

[Dataweaver]

What needs to be erased?

[marin]

Erasing most of the Christian influences in Arthurian Mythos will erase a lot of the modern flavour (could be bad or good), I think the best way would be to have two sides in the pantheon: one closer to the celtic root (the Welsh side) and the other influenced by Crhstianity (the Arthurian side).

So, going by the preview, Arthur and the knights aren't considered as Gods in the Welsh pantheon, since it lists off who's getting included. They have Mantles, but they're not Gods.

[Muskrat]

Maybe they're treating the characters in the Arthurian cycle as Mantles of the Welsh gods?

The most familiar version of the Arthurian cycle is the at least superficially Christianized one--one that deeply reflects feudal ideals. The older, more Celtic version of Arthur and his followers is less familiar, for the simple reason that what we have of it is highly fragmented, with no complete story cycle. I imagine many people who want to engage with the Arthurian cycle want to engage with the more familiar feudal Christian one. Of course in Scion, all myths are true--even the ones that contradict other ones--so the writers could just include both versions of Arthur and his followers.

[Dataweaver]

Feudal≠Christian.

[Astromancer]

Feudal≠Christian.

True. But in practice that's how it works out. Heck, Ireland was deeply Christian without being Romanized in law and institutions.