War of Three Kings - Campaign Help

[ZipDrive]

I'm prepping to start a new scion game, and my starting idea is to have the three brothers of the Dodekatheon at odds for the throne. Hades, Poseidon, and Zeus' divide slowly turns to a war in the heavens, and their discontent spills over into the world before eventually (at higher legend) becoming an all out war.

What I'd like some help with is figuring out an idea for the inciting incident - figuring it out can be a plot point in and of itself, or part of the background of the campaign -, help fleshing out ways their conflict can impact the World, and figuring out who's siding with who!

At the hero level, I'd like this to manifest in ways that have the pcs dealing with the unintentional fallout of this conflict. A few ideas I have are:

Hermes has decided to avoid this conflict (or has been abducted by Hades' enemies) and with no one to usher the dead to the underworld, the spirits are building up. Necromancers have taken advantage of this and are posing a threat to the community. Alternatively, Hades is refusing to admit the spirits in to the Underworld to force them to build up and cause problems for his brothers.

Poseidon's anger has caused the seas to swell and rise, horses to run rampant, the earth to shake. This could cause any number of environmental disasters that need fixing.

Zeus is gearing up for war and has the Cyclops making thunderbolts - only problem is one is now unaccounted for on Mt. Olympus, and a scion suddenly has incredible lightning powers.

Allies I think Work by Faction:
Zeus - Athena, Amaterasu (upholding the order)
Poseidon - ???
Hades - Cthonic Gods

Wild Cards:
Hera - Why let Zeus stay King? If she reincarnates and changes her mantle, she may no longer be tied to him
Ares - Upset he wasn't allowed to fight at Troy, he's now fighting in every battle
Sun Wukong - A chance to fight the gods? He's in!
Sons of Zeus - Split on supporting Zeus (he's only one god they have to beat, as opposed to all 3), or supporting NOT Zeus, optimistically thinking they can swoop in to become the new King over Poseidon or Hades

Any help would be greatly appreciated, thanks!

[Astromancer]

Odin is a interesting wild card. Popular fiction makes him contemptuous of Zeus. He might stir things up to weaken the Theoi in the long run.

Isis is a plotter and manipulator. The Egyptian gods dislike the Greek deities. Like Odin she'd basically want them all to lose.

Joseph Campbell (not liked on these boards) once made a fairly solid case that Shiva and Poseidon are connected on a deep level. Both being forms of a ancient Indo-European deity. Let's go with that idea. Shiva might ally with Poseidon as a way of gaining deep influence in the West.

[Lady Darcia]

For the reason why Poseidon is fighting his two brothers, there might be an interesting historical reason too it (though, maybe too historical).

Basically, in the early mycenaean period, the Greek gods as we know already existed, but had radical different roles. It was Poseidon who was the ruler of the Gods, as both a sea god but also a cthonic deity. It was only after the bronze age collapse that he was retrograded in favor of Zeus.

So, you could imagine the emergence of a cult, who found ancient relics that praised Poseidon as the king of the Gods, and due to this worship, Fate is slowly changing Poseidon and forging his desire to be king once more.

For his allies, he could turn to the Titans for help : of course, not the Titans of his Pantheon, but causing earthquake and other natural disasters is sure to garner support from Titans aligned to the Primeval Calling.

[Muskrat]

There is a less well known myth where Poseidon and Hera tried rebelling against Zeus. It did not end well for them. I think Zeus hung them by their ankles from the heavens for some extended period of time.

I think Sun Wukong is unlikely to get involved just because there's a fight. Maybe as he is at the start of his myth, but by the end he's morally grown and is counted as a Buddha--so if he gets involved, it would be because he sees one side as more compassionate than the other.

I think how different gods from different pantheons react may relate to their historical relationship with those pantheons. The Yazatas of Persia and the Nemetondevos of Gaul have bad relationships with the Theoi, so might conceivably back a rebellion with the hope of breaking the Theoi's power.

[Muskrat]

Conversely, the Netjer of Egypt, who have a long-term, positive relationship with the Theoi, might try to mediate the conflict. They can send in Thoth the mediate and, if that doesn't work, send in Seth and Sehkhmet to bash some heads together.

[ZipDrive]

Odin is a interesting wild card. Popular fiction makes him contemptuous of Zeus. He might stir things up to weaken the Theoi in the long run.

This could also lead to an initially antagonistic set of Norse Scions/Gods, looking to stir up the pot at Odin's machinations. Are there any obvious sources of Greek Immortality for Loki to be hunting for?

Isis is a plotter and manipulator. The Egyptian gods dislike the Greek deities. Like Odin she'd basically want them all to lose.

Conversely, the Netjer of Egypt, who have a long-term, positive relationship with the Theoi, might try to mediate the conflict. They can send in Thoth the mediate and, if that doesn't work, send in Seth and Sehkhmet to bash some heads together.

I also like this because it, with Muskrat's suggestion, would make the Netjer non-homogenous in their views towards the conflict. While the majority of the Netjer want to stabilize them, some individuals are working against them. Would Sobek be among the head bashing crowd, or would Gods of Water flock together?

Joseph Campbell (not liked on these boards) once made a fairly solid case that Shiva and Poseidon are connected on a deep level. Both being forms of a ancient Indo-European deity. Let's go with that idea. Shiva might ally with Poseidon as a way of gaining deep influence in the West.

Shiva and Poseidon as a pair would be terrifying if they ever decided to turn their wrath on the world itself.

[ZipDrive]

For the reason why Poseidon is fighting his two brothers, there might be an interesting historical reason too it (though, maybe too historical).

Basically, in the early mycenaean period, the Greek gods as we know already existed, but had radical different roles. It was Poseidon who was the ruler of the Gods, as both a sea god but also a cthonic deity. It was only after the bronze age collapse that he was retrograded in favor of Zeus.

So, you could imagine the emergence of a cult, who found ancient relics that praised Poseidon as the king of the Gods, and due to this worship, Fate is slowly changing Poseidon and forging his desire to be king once more.

For his allies, he could turn to the Titans for help : of course, not the Titans of his Pantheon, but causing earthquake and other natural disasters is sure to garner support from Titans aligned to the Primeval Calling.

I really love this. Would you imagine that Poseidon himself is the instigating party for all three? I aim to cast all three in a potentially sympathetic/understandable light, so that support of any of them is reasonable. Would you cast this in a "He was king once, so it's not unreasonable for him to be king again?"

I love couching my stories historically, so thank you for this!

The specific callout for the Primeval calling is a super helpful place to look/inspiration to make, too.

[ZipDrive]

There is a less well known myth where Poseidon and Hera tried rebelling against Zeus. It did not end well for them. I think Zeus hung them by their ankles from the heavens for some extended period of time.

I think Sun Wukong is unlikely to get involved just because there's a fight. Maybe as he is at the start of his myth, but by the end he's morally grown and is counted as a Buddha--so if he gets involved, it would be because he sees one side as more compassionate than the other.

I think how different gods from different pantheons react may relate to their historical relationship with those pantheons. The Yazatas of Persia and the Nemetondevos of Gaul have bad relationships with the Theoi, so might conceivably back a rebellion with the hope of breaking the Theoi's power.

I expect whoever wins this war will not go easy on those who stood against them, but that's a great frame of reference.

Thanks for that info on Sun Wukong - I think it would be neat to have a reincarnation looking to be equal to another Heaven though - either as a pc or npc.

So these pantheons may be backing any of the three Gods, but not necessarily to support them, but to fan the flames?

[FallenEco]

I really love this. Would you imagine that Poseidon himself is the instigating party for all three? I aim to cast all three in a potentially sympathetic/understandable light, so that support of any of them is reasonable. Would you cast this in a "He was king once, so it's not unreasonable for him to be king again?"

I love couching my stories historically, so thank you for this!

The specific callout for the Primeval calling is a super helpful place to look/inspiration to make, too.

I'd take the bold stance that the mortals did the Mycenean revival on their own and Zeus demanded that Poseidon put a stop to it and the sea god refused. It doesn't start the war, but it escalates tensions.
Bonus points: Mycenean Poseidon was a chthonic deity and there was no Hades in that period, though Persephone/Kore was around. Maybe not all the chthonic deities are happy under Hades and see this as a chance to jump ship. Demeter certainly has every reason to side with Poseidon over Zeus and Hades.

Also don't forget that the Illiad suggests a time when Hera, Poseidon and Athena had Zeus locked down. Don't assume things go smooth in the house of Zeus.

Honestly, Hades has the fewest stake in this. The co-called "Zeus of the Underworld [Zeus Chthonios]" mostly just does his job and the harshest things i credit to him in my limited understanding of source material is;

1. the non-consensual abduction of his bride which is not consistent in the retelling, (especially with her pre-dating him) is also not exactly...out of line with the norms of the time. He asked her dad to marry her, got permission and then did it. Given that she played a larger role in the day to day worship, I'm more inclined to trust in the versions of the tales where she has a more active role, be it the one where she sits down with Hecate and Hermes to work out how to stay married to the ones where she actively sort out the Underworld. As bad as kidnapping and forced marriage are (and THEY ARE AWFUL), that isn't what Hades did from context of his culture. Admittedly the Homeric Hymn to Demeter (one of the more detailed accounts on the subject) may have been pushing that such things should be stopped, but they were happening frequently enough that there wasn't a lot of public shame over it. However sad that may be.
2. Orpheus. While denying a person their loved one is objectively awful, it is Hades role/job to keep the living from the dead. This one is him just doing his job.

In my defense, Hades doesn't show up a lot and by most accounts, just makes sure the Underworld runs smoothly. He doesn't do most of the judging or punishing and most requests for intercession go through his wife first. Why would Hades want to be King of all the Gods?

[Lady Darcia]

FallenEco beat me to it, but yes, i believe it's more interesting that it's the mortals who reignited the cult of Mycenaean Poseidon, and as such, their faith is starting to influence Fate, which is kinda of a big deal since this has the power to overwrite history itself, and more importantly for the Theoi, their personnalities and their roles.

Again, as FallenEco said, Hades has little stakes in the matter, but Persephone could. She indeed existed during the Mycenaean period, while her husband didn't : she might have been the Queen of the Underworld, for all we know. So if you go with "Mycenaean revival" scenario, it could be her that is actually behind Hades uprising, with her husband mainly supporting her claim. On that note, they may have the unexpected support of Dionysus, since, in some versions of his myths, he is actually the son of Persephone, which some historians have interpreted as relic from older myths, more akin to the Mycenaean faith, who seemed to focus on cthonic deities and the idea of death and rebirth.

[Astromancer]

Another wild card would be the Telchines. They were the deities of ancient Rhodes. In some older Greek myths Poseidon like Zeus was raised away from Olympus. In later stories only Zeus escaped being devoured by Kornos.

The Telchines, long suppressed and bullied by the Olympians, most of their number killed by-Zeus, have no love of the Status Quo. They have ancient connections to Poseidon. Mind you, they might feel Poseidon betrayed them and favor Hades who has done them no harm.

Note: The Telchines are also called "the ministers of the Gods." At sometime the Telchines might have worked at administrators for the theoi. Who knows what secrets these Sorcerers learned in that job.

[Muskrat]

So these pantheons may be backing any of the three Gods, but not necessarily to support them, but to fan the flames?

Yes, the Yazatas and Nemetedevos would just want to sabotage the Theoi. The Nemetedevos might even be able to persuade some pantheons to take their side. After all, the Theoi committed genocide against them--and then essentially cannibalized them by stealing their Mantles. It's something the other pantheons seem to overlook, but if the Nemetedevos actively called other pantheons' attention to this ... they might well get sympathy from the Shen, who, while traditionalists are also humanitarians, and from the Monitou, Orisha/Loa, Teotl, Apu and Atua, who have both experienced the genocide of their peoples.

Hmm. You know, from what I've read about the syncretism of Gaulish and Roman gods in the real world, I don't think either Hera/Juno or Poseidon/Neptune got syncretized with any of the Gaulish deities. They might try pleading innocence to get the Nemetedevos on their side. I'm not sure how convincing the Nemetedevos would find any of that, given they didn't actively try to do anything to stop it. Unless you go back far enough in time to when Juno tried to sabotage's Aeneas' destiny to arrive in Italy and lay the foundations for what would evolved into the Roman Empire. The Nemetedevos might feign sympathy with Hera and Poseidon though as part of their plan of sabotage.

[Muskrat]

On the flip side, the Mesopotamian gods would probably back Zeus, since they value order and obedience above all other things. I think a lot of pantheons might take a hands-off approach and let individual gods get involved as they choose--but if their members get drawn in on opposite sides of the war, that would make things messy for them. And some pantheons might try to mediate the conflict--the Bogovi of the Slavs seem like they might be particularly adept at doing so.