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Which New Pantheons do you want?

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  • Dataweaver
    replied
    Yeah; I'd vastly prefer it if Scion 2e were largely to treat the issues of a Canaanite Pantheon and of how to address the Abrahamic religions as two largely distinct matters, with the only real overlap being “Abrahamic religions option #3: the god of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob is Yahweh of the Canaanite Pantheon”. That is, present the potential connection between the two as one option among many, and not the first or even the second option.

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  • Morimaruvik
    replied
    Maybe if we get a "Further Pantheons" book or something, the Canaanite pantheon could just kinda...be snuck in there, with no mention of modern monotheisms at all. People who want to play Semitic Scions would get their fix, and strict monotheists wouldn't see too much to ruffle their feathers, as the pantheon would simply be presented as a pantheon like every other one, not directly challenging the religious concept of "Yahweh has always been the only god." Like it's something completely unrelated, unless you know enough to make the association anyway?

    Just spit-balling.

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  • Shadowflame
    replied
    *nods at what Dataweaver said...*

    I'm pretty sure that the "Canaanite" pantheon covers the old Hebrew (Habiru..Hapiru?) pantheon well enough. Mentioning that it might apply to current beliefs is probably the likely route.

    Although I'm on the fence about mentioning Islam for the sole reason that it's kinda new and as far Scion goes it might not be relevant.

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  • TwoDSix
    replied
    Originally posted by Dataweaver View Post
    I'm not so much interested in a Canaanite Pantheon that’s presented in a way that’s deeply respectful to Christians, Jews, and Muslims as I am in a Canaanite Pantheon that doesn't go out of its way to offend said groups. As the recent shootings in Texas illustrated, some people will take great offense at even minor things like drawing pictures; and even walk on eggshells won't satisfy themi. They're not the target audience.
    Sorry for the confusion, that's basically how I define respect. There's things I find offensive in Werewolf: the Apocalypse, but I just work around them or ignore them, as many mature people do. Respectful would be pointing out that no, this is not your god. If a book had to go out of it's way to not offend someone then they aren't being respectful to that group, as they're implying that they basically need to be babysat whereas Hindus don't.

    Bare in mind that I live in a fairly non-religious country, so as long as something is not actually intentionally offensive, I regard it as respectful.

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  • Dataweaver
    replied
    I'm not so much interested in a Canaanite Pantheon that’s presented in a way that’s deeply respectful to Christians, Jews, and Muslims as I am in a Canaanite Pantheon that doesn't go out of its way to offend said groups. As the recent shootings in Texas illustrated, some people will take great offense at even minor things like drawing pictures; and even walk on eggshells won't satisfy themi. They're not the target audience.

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  • TwoDSix
    replied
    Originally posted by Morimaruvik View Post
    That doesn't really seem possible, IMHO. Many Christians and Muslims can get antsy when reminded their deity used to be part of a pantheon, and would see reminding them of that fact, even in a game, to be inherently disrespectful, no matter how it was handled. Again, just IMO, and this obviously doesn't apply to all of them, etc.
    Nope, it doesn't apply to all of us, but this is the reason I don't expect an official version to turn up. It saddens me, as it basically says that I can't play a Hebrew Scion unless I'm willing to do enough research to amount to a theology degree. As it is, presenting the 'Hebrew Pantheon' is less disrespectful to modern religions than letting people play a Scion of Jesus, while allowing players to keep the idea of a monotheistic god as being a separate figure being the best way to do it (I'd even suggest officially stating that none of the deities in the Pantheon are the monotheistic god, and that their relationship to it is the same as Aten's).

    I'll probably homebrew a version eventually, because I fully expect to hear Word of God along the lines of 'we don't want to risk annoying a large percentage of the US, so IF we do it it'll be a small thing at most'.

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  • Morimaruvik
    replied
    Originally posted by TwoDSix View Post

    Oh, I totally agree, it would have to be very respectful to three current religions, and would have to be one of the best put together (as well as stating the difference between a god and an angel in-pantheon).
    That doesn't really seem possible, IMHO. Many Christians and Muslims can get antsy when reminded their deity used to be part of a pantheon, and would see reminding them of that fact, even in a game, to be inherently disrespectful, no matter how it was handled. Again, just IMO, and this obviously doesn't apply to all of them, etc.

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  • TwoDSix
    replied
    Originally posted by ZealousChristian24 View Post
    I'm not sure, myself. I feel it could be done, but it would require finesse and delicacy. Probably a sidebar or two clarifying that these figures are not the deity worshipped in the modern day, who may or may not be His own thing depending on what you and your group is comfortable with.
    Oh, I totally agree, it would have to be very respectful to three current religions, and would have to be one of the best put together (as well as stating the difference between a god and an angel in-pantheon). It's definitely something that should not be thrown in, and should not appear until a good way into the new edition. I just have a problem with the lack of anything Hebrew in the line beyond a Titan who might be the Abrahamic god or may just have 'borrowed' the religions.

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  • ZealousChristian24
    replied
    Originally posted by TwoDSix View Post
    I'd love to see a pre-monotheistic Hebrew Pantheon, mainly of the Yehweh/Elohim/Baal theory, but willing to see any others. Although I know such a thing probably isn't a good idea in a country as deeply religious as the US, as it's undermining a core tenant of at least two major faiths using their own deity.
    I'm not sure, myself. I feel it could be done, but it would require finesse and delicacy. Probably a sidebar or two clarifying that these figures are not the deity worshipped in the modern day, who may or may not be His own thing depending on what you and your group is comfortable with.

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  • TwoDSix
    replied
    I'd love to see a pre-monotheistic Hebrew Pantheon, mainly of the Yehweh/Elohim/Baal theory, but willing to see any others. Although I know such a thing probably isn't a good idea in a country as deeply religious as the US, as it's undermining a core tenant of at least two major faiths using their own deity.

    Otherwise I have none that I desperately love to see, I just can't wait to get access to the game and see how my ancestral pantheon (the Tuatha) are presented, as I love the myths and ideas, and want to explore the clashes between the ancient Irish morality and modern morality, and the idea of how a pantheon reacts to being 'censored' when a new religion dominates (please talk about the changes to the Irish myths when Christianity came). I'd like to see more explored with the current pantheons than new ones added.

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  • Evilmarmelade
    replied
    No. Please don't. Seriously, please don't do that, it would be terrible. It'll cause so many historical connotations and uncomfortable controversies.
    Last edited by Evilmarmelade; 05-04-2015, 04:03 PM.

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  • Astromancer
    replied
    Originally posted by Neall View Post
    It's certainly an idea. I like the Gauls being a core-ish pantheon as the typical example of a dead pantheon, but we'll see.
    The Gaulish Pantheon survived. It became the French National Pantheon and Marianne leads it. Like several other pantheons, they changed their name and upped their game.

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  • Silvernale
    replied
    Babylonian definitely. Gilgamesh, Enkidu, Ea, Sin, Inanna, etc... These mythologies were EPIC.

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  • Evilmarmelade
    replied
    i just looked at drivethrurpg, and sure enough, it's still there.

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  • Ajax
    replied
    Is it still possible to purchase the Screen/Nemetondevos pdf? If so, I'll still hold with the trust of not passing along the translation I have. If not, I think my hands are untied and I'd be willing to give over, unless the original translator (who shows up from time to time) has issues with it.

    The other French materials I'd hand around freely.

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