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How do you imagine the 6th edition of WoD?

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  • How do you imagine the 6th edition of WoD?

    Do you think the new edition could be soon? I mean, the previous editions had a duration of 7 years, V5 , nowadays, has 5. Do you think it will be possible to see Onyx Path involved? What could be the next sourcebook? Also what are your thoughts about the future of cod?
    Last edited by Metalbird; 11-07-2022, 08:18 AM.

  • #2
    Who knows?

    Though it's worth noting that previous WoD editions averaged fairly short durations by industry standards, mostly because 1e to 2e was so short. It also depends on whether you count from the first book from any game line in an edition, to the last book in that game line for that edition, or the last book of any game line. VtM Revised ended VtM 2e, but there were still 2e books coming out for WtA and MtA at that point.

    I doubt WoD6 is coming anytime soon though. Maybe a V5.5 that's more in-line with how Justin did H5 and is doing W5 from what we've seen for greater consistency, but nothing indicates the current team is itching for a new game engine. We also don't know what the supplement schedule is going to look like for the immediate future. If we're going to see 4-6 supplements for the other games, it will easily be 5+ years before they're likely to want to start publicly getting a new edition ready to go.

    As Paradox seems increasingly apathetic towards Exalted, and passive aggressive towards CofD, it seems unlikely Onyx Path freelancers are flocking to WoD5 projects even if in theory they were there to be picked up.

    CofD would have a great future if Paradox would take their foot off its neck and let Onyx Path keep making money for them.

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    • #3
      Honestly I don't. It will depend on who does it and why. The current games are a specific goal of the IP owner colored by a specific developer. It's a crapshoot what any kind of potential next WoD would be, especially when this one has quite a few games to make.


      What doesn't kill you, makes you... stranger.

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      • #4
        If I were in charge of a hypothetical 6e, this is what I'd do:

        1. One Storyteller system for all games. You could port stuff between Exalted and VTR and WTO without too much fuss. I'd probably opt for something like VTR2e's system, but simplified and streamlined (e.g., list two or three broad types of Condition, then let STs and players make up their own to fall into those categories; the name would make it obvious, such as Ablation: Bleeding 2, or Status: Dazed 3).

        2. Different settings would be encouraged, but they'd all use the same core rules chassis. I'd embrace VTM, VTR, maybe even a Vampire: The Glittering (I jest) with their own unique styles and worldbuilding. Think of the way D&D allows for Greyhawk, Forgotten Realms, Eberron and Ravenloft to coexist. The different settings should enrich sales, not cannibalise them. You could take a VTM book and use the rules therein to add stuff to VTR, and vice versa. This could be good for business if you do it right.

        3. More support for different playstyles, not less. All the core games would expect to have at least three tiers of play. Individual games could have their own chapter of optional rules and dials to adjust the experience as you'd like to.

        4. You could have a separate Storyteller System rulebook for those who just want a rules chassis and want to make up their own settings. The other games would still have the core rules in a single chapter, but maybe without all the fiddly bits (e.g., the difference between a punch and a kick, or a grapple and a clinch). Make the Storyteller system a thing in its own right, so that people would want to make their own games in the ruleset.

        5. Core rule books and most supplements would be metaplot agnostic. I might do a numbered series of metaplot books for each game line that add signature characters, key events and optional rules tweaks that all build on the other books in that series, but which are otherwise standalone. Sabbat Crusade 1-6 would be separate to The Dream Reborn 1-4, for example, and neither would be assumed to be "true" for the core game. Think Orpheus, and how it was a self-contained chronicle that didn't really impact the rest of the WoD. The seventh edition therefore wouldn't need to retcon anything, as those things would only exist in certain supplements.
        Last edited by adambeyoncelowe; 11-09-2022, 11:39 AM.


        Writer, publisher, performer
        Mostly he/his, sometimes she/her IRL https://adam-lowe.com

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        • #5
          Just hit the undo button on everything V5 (maybe give us a Giovanni uprising chronicle book) and give us a refined... I'd say 20th, but there's honestly a lot of things 20th did wrong by numbly copying revised, like Diablerie rules, or by reworking the game to suit their specific tastes despite the dark aspect of the world of darkness, like how W20 is more optimistic and the Disparate alliance is a big deal despite it's members being, y'know, disparate. Hell let's walk back all the revised changes that weren't necessary.

          Lets make it clear: Vampires are unchanging beings that adapt to the times and not much more than necessary. They also don't really involve themselves in politics beyond the level of the city state. The less big upsets they get, the better: world spanning vampire metaplot is fucking asinine. nothing should extend beyond the city and fuck with people's games. Chicago by Night is fine, let it stay in Chicago. Gehenna options are fun when they're optional. Give us the largest amount of options possible while still giving us a grounded and functional society (IE the Tzmisce aren't just going to join the Camarilla and people aren't suddenly going to be kind to Caitiff and thinbloods) Mages likewise don't need over inflated melodrama.

          I don't think the Garou nation needs a leader, perhaps each tribe can have a leader. If Jonas is to be "the last king" then It's a stupid joke to start giving the nation queens. SL leadership would be interesting but that shouldn't effect local games so what's the point?)


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          • #6
            A 6th edition this soon depends on how badly W5, then subsequently afterward, M5 does. If it gets to that dire point, Paradox will just directly intervene and nuke a lot of the stuff that was decided in 5th edition that made it so unpopular.


            Jade Kingdom Warrior

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            • #7
              I'm not sure Paradox cares that much. The TTRPG side of things mostly seems to be one (very important) guy there's pet project. The company is more concerned with more profitable ventures like video games and so on.

              Realistically speaking, Paradox is far more likely to not do a new edition, or just stop any in-house work on the TTRPG stuff at all, until after they finally get a top tier video game out there. If Bloodlines 2 (or whatever they end up calling it if the stench of BL2's status is too much) finally happens, and is good, the company is going to suddenly care a lot more about how their tied-in products are doing, and if they want a new edition to capture sales via an influx of new eyes on the WoD (similar to Cyberpunk's book sales right now).

              The popularity that matters to Paradox on a corporate level is going to be sales boosted by a video game. If WoD5 sales skyrocket once a big game comes out? They're not going to care about a new edition as long as people are buying the current one. If WoD5 sales don't budge even with a giant hit video game, Paradox's corporate eyes are going to be much more critical of the TTRPG team.

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              • #8
                Being negative, I don't think there will be a 6th Edition. I think the current run failed to take advantage of the nostalgia cycle and RPG popularity renaissance to really get off the ground, that whatever fans came in with this current one isn't enough to warrant trust in the property as a major contender as either just an RPG franchise bundle or the center of a multimedia push, that any other publishers who might have been interested are going to take this as evidence it's not worth it, and at the end of the day it's going to become a money sink that Paradox is gonna resent. I would love to believe there's a future for this, but the entire rollout has the stink of permanently sinking World.

                but hey, I've been wrong before.


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                • #9
                  Mechanics wise I would just port the CoD system and slap a WoD spin on it, the setting and themes must remain different but the mechanics have nothing to do with it and they can overlap just fine, alternatively pick the 20th edition system and tweak the everloving shit out of it, balance the powers and for fucks sake get rid of anything that gives multiple actions, celerity, rage, time whatever, that shit has to go, have it so that these powers only add to your dice pool and then split it into how many actions you want, the only thing I would keep from V5 is the hunger dice but rework it so you don't go bananas if you roll too well.

                  Regarding the metaplot, I would discard basically everything that was done in V5 and pick it up from where 20th left it only getting rid of the 20 or so glooming apocalypses that nobody gives a shit about anymore, keep it local like MyWifeisScary said, having a developed setting to use as a sandbox is fine but I don't want to go read 10 books to see if my idea to set a chronicle in bumfuck Nowherevile doesn't mess with the current developments.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Heavy Arms View Post
                    The company is more concerned with more profitable ventures like video games and so on.

                    Realistically speaking, Paradox is far more likely to not do a new edition, or just stop any in-house work on the TTRPG stuff at all, until after they finally get a top tier video game out there. If Bloodlines 2 (or whatever they end up calling it if the stench of BL2's status is too much) finally happens, and is good, the company is going to suddenly care a lot more about how their tied-in products are doing, and if they want a new edition to capture sales via an influx of new eyes on the WoD (similar to Cyberpunk's book sales right now).

                    The popularity that matters to Paradox on a corporate level is going to be sales boosted by a video game. If WoD5 sales skyrocket once a big game comes out? They're not going to care about a new edition as long as people are buying the current one. If WoD5 sales don't budge even with a giant hit video game, Paradox's corporate eyes are going to be much more critical of the TTRPG team.
                    The critical problem is that I don't think Paradox can pull off a major WoD game at all. Most of their game development acumen is steeped into Grand Strategy games, and even then, the quality of the mainline games as of late is.. to be desired (*cough* Victoria 3 at a consistent 63% Steam score for about a week now). They have zero experience in making full-on RPGs, with the closest they've done to that being the Crusader Kings franchise.

                    To circumvent this, they got Hardsuit Labs (a mostly unknown company, hated by a Playstation console community for ruining a game called Blacklight: Retribution) to attempt to take on Bloodlines 2, but something happened and they had a falling out. Weird that they would even accept a company with only Live-Service FPS experience to make something as big as Bloodlines 2... Either Bloodlines 2 is in development hell (de facto cancelled) or its being worked on in-house... which could be a scrambled together disaster.

                    I also doubt they will make a major game out of any of the gamelines, until they finally get Bloodlines 2 out the way for better or worse. Paradox trying to capture a zeitgeist out of a WoD game is becoming a growing stretch, due to who-knows how long Bloodlines 2 will take to actually come out. If W5 releases before Bloodlines 2 (which is very likely) and it pans out badly, WoD as a franchise is going to degrade even further than it already is now.


                    Jade Kingdom Warrior

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                    • #11
                      To me the strange thing is that Paradox bought a bunch of smaller studios in the late 2010s, seemingly to build up their ability to work on BL2. Hardsuit had the most experience working as a secondary development team on AAA games, Harebrained game in with experience adapting Shadowrun and Battletech to videogames, and Triumph came in with action RPG experience from the Overlord series. It seems pretty clear that they were buying up various studios so they could actually make BL2 despite it not being in their main wheelhouse.

                      That said, I agree with your pessimism here. My point was just that corporate-think at Paradox is going to focus on video games, not what's good for the TTRPGs, and predictions about what's going to happen with the WoD should be contingent on that. If BL2 (or whatever) happens and flops, the WoD is going down with it for sure.

                      But hey, maybe they'll sell it on the cheap to Onyx Path if that happens.

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                      • #12
                        I can understand all of your pessimism and I think is the healthier way to see all this. But I think we haven't to be driven by the despair yet. I mean, like a student of History, the things happens in a context that gives them a meaning. They don't happen in a vacuum. And in this case , I don't see that an excellent videogame could be the death of WoD like we know. One of the main complaints of the Bloodhunts fans was that many of the things you do in the videogame, you can't do that in the RPG. In that context , it could be a more pressure towards the RPG for a better quality. Also an excellent product, it could mean the return of many old fans that they will complaint about the huge differences between editions (and I speaking for Vampire which was the second main RPG in the 90's ,an age that it was lived by a lot of the people of today ) and put more pressure. Or , maybe the sell of the CoD to Onyx Path, because for that success , Parawolf would'nt see it like a rival anymore. And I'm not enter to the terrain of trends and fashions, in the last years we saw a revival of the 80's culture with Stranger Things, it wouldn't be strange to see a revival of the 90's culture soon (and maybe with their own "masterpiece", 5th edition will die for succes and made the people more interested towards the old editions. This happened with Cyberpunk 2020, which returned to the bestseller list in Drivethrurpg. Maybe with a very inferior position in the list compared to the new edition, true, but it doesn't quit the merit (also the position of Talsorian about the previous materail is the opposite that Paradox has with the old WoD )).

                        But, honestly, at the end of the day , I see a more and more black future for WoD. I think we could see three main scenarios if we are still in this situation in teh future: 1) The death of WoD and CoD as a whole, 2) Paradox gives definitely WoD and Cod to Onyx Path because their success with the previous 20 books, CoD 2nd edition and their V5 sourcebook after the failure of H5 and W5. With that they could avoid the whole dead of the IP and still they could follow their videogame projects (we could add here too, that we haven't speak of Renegade. And yes Parawolf could have all the money and time it wants , but Renegade not. They're in a difficult situation if the WoD don't grow NOW), or 3) the appeareance of a huge success of a related 5th edition product that it could give us towards the creation of a new edition with promotional purpose but , only, for Vampire, and the death of the all of the secondary lines because they don't reward the investment of time or money in them according to Paradox.

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                        • #13
                          No way we will see a 6th edition unless white wolf goes under someone else.
                          5th editions right now are only 2 games.
                          Werewolf in development and more than one time Achilli said he is taking notes for Mage.

                          Plus paradox will most likely try to get more video games from the wod 5th. Everything will be extremely slow.

                          Honestly I dont think we will ever get a 6th edition, unless something internal happens at paradox.


                          -'' We are the unsullied.
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                          We are the Pure ''-

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Helur View Post
                            Werewolf in development and more than one time Achilli said he is taking notes for Mage.
                            Honestly, they should bring back the people who have the most experience with the gameline, to actually write and develop the gameline. I don't know why Parawolf only brought back one person who only worked on Vampire, to now work on all these other titles they never done before (but even then, he apparently had a lot of experience developing the Sabbat.. but now they're just unplayable NPCs by V5 RAW.. great). I already know Mage 5 is going to be biggest disaster, more-so than how Werewolf 5 is being presented right now from the Q&A alone.


                            Jade Kingdom Warrior

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                            • #15
                              I can't imagine them finishing 5th edition before it shuts down and the rights get sold again lmao

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